I just got blindsided folks. Manager and some HR lady pull me into a chat room and inform me they are letting me going due to company restructuring :-) I didn't see this coming at all I'm devastated and don't know what the fuck to do. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
Yeah, I'm reading fair bit about it. Apparently Toilet and Douche is having a pretty sizable layoff. Which is weird, because there is a massive shortage of CPAs.
The WFH thing is a pretty interesting thing to watch from the outside. This is a tighter job market than I've seen in my life. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out. There are some employees that are ride or die with WFH and a lot of them are tremendously valuable and difficult to replace.
The other side of it is that I don't have a problem believing there is a significant dropoff of production of many employees. Particularly lower end employees.
The other component that is difficult to quantify is most of the training and development for upward mobility happens informally in the office. I'm sure dudes are looking at their bench and thinking, "fuck".
It's an interesting set of problems. I'm glad I don't lean on the labor pool more than I do. And I hate the part that I do.
I do think there is validity to some roles being more productive in office and others may actually lessen productivity by adding long commutes. That nuance isn't being considered, at least here, yet.
Where it gets complicated is that people have made life decisions based on WFH that they may or may not had been previously assured of. I know my company touted all the productivity gains and benefits of a smaller real estate footprint which signaled that WFH was going better than expected only to do an about-face.
Me for instance. I relocated during the pandemic based on my wife and I WFH status. The requirements we gave our realtor was a home large enough to accommodate 2 home offices. Both of us are being called back into the office hybrid.
There's childcare waiting lists a year out and people are being required to return within 3 months. Its messy for a lot of people.
I'll likely be protected because I was virtual prior to the pandemic due to my role as company snitch but people are freaking the fuck out about it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
Yeah, I'm reading fair bit about it. Apparently Toilet and Douche is having a pretty sizable layoff. Which is weird, because there is a massive shortage of CPAs.
The WFH thing is a pretty interesting thing to watch from the outside. This is a tighter job market than I've seen in my life. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out. There are some employees that are ride or die with WFH and a lot of them are tremendously valuable and difficult to replace.
The other side of it is that I don't have a problem believing there is a significant dropoff of production of many employees. Particularly lower end employees.
The other component that is difficult to quantify is most of the training and development for upward mobility happens informally in the office. I'm sure dudes are looking at their bench and thinking, "****".
It's an interesting set of problems. I'm glad I don't lean on the labor pool more than I do. And I hate the part that I do.
I’ve been WFH since 2015. No way I’m ever going back into an office. But, I’m in I.T. Which I believe is viewed differently when deciding WFH.
Most people in the field are not paid for what they did in the last 8 hours or day. But, you have to produce. Bring value. Get on stupid meetings, tolerate Brenda’s constant emails etc.
You are usually paid well. Remote work as long as you produce. If not, better refresh that resume. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Titty Meat:
Same pay, better benefits, and more PTO though so it's a win.
Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks:
...Moral to the story: When one door closes, another opens. You'll be fine TM. You'll likely end up in a spot/situation that was way better than the one you just left. Life is funny that way...
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Apparently if you resign you can file for unemployment and receive it through the exception for showing good cause. This is usually for harassment or unsafe working conditions, but if it comes to it I’m still applying. You figure my situation would be an exception.
One of the secondary offices is in St Louis but that’s roughly 4 hours away. I have less than 10% chance of getting the “virtual hybrid” designation only going in 1-3 days a month. That would be ideal as my Uncle lives in St Charles, however that’s less than 10%. I’m much more likely to get the full time 3-5 day office worker designation.
That would help with time while I’m looking, but my wife is very much against it for good reason. I would be leaving Sunday afternoon and probably wouldn’t be back until late Wednesday night. That’s a lot of time away from my family just to push time out to keep my job and get one.
I’m dusting off my resume today and will probably start looking for new employment tomorrow.
If they have a long runway for the relocation, and it's more financially beneficial for you to stay employed than to out yourself as a non-relocater that needs to file for unemployment, I'd play the game to keep the checks coming in up while looking for another gig.
Let them think you're moving (while not financially committing yourself or signing anything crazy) while you start interviewing elsewhere. [Reply]
Originally Posted by :
Americans Have Never Been So Unwilling to Relocate for a New Job
ByAlexandre Tanzi
The share of job seekers who relocated to take up a new position fell to 1.6%, the lowest level on record, in the first quarter of 2023, according to a quarterly survey that’s been carried out by executive coaching firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas, Inc. for decades.
Behind the shift in attitudes lies a post-pandemic surge in remote and hybrid positions, which has made it possible for more workers to stay where they’re living even as they change jobs. What’s more, higher interest rates have made buying a house somewhere else more expensive — especially when it also requires people to sell an existing home that’s financed with a mortgage locked in at low costs.
And all of that comes on top of longer-term trends that have seen US workers grow steadily more reluctant to relocate — perhaps because diminishing job security has made the costs of moving house seem like less of a safe investment.
“In the 1980s and 90s, nearly a third of job seekers would move for new positions,” said Andrew Challenger, senior vice president at Challenger, Gray & Christmas. “Now, remote and hybrid positions are keeping workers at home.”
About one-third of US companies say most of their workers are in the office, according to Challenger — up from just 13% last fall. Still, many workers are digging in their heels and refusing to come back.
Fewer than half of workers went to the office in 10 of the largest US business districts in the week ended May 10, according to data from Kastle Systems, a office key-fob firm.
The Challenger data comes from a survey of over 3,000 job seekers across the country.
I’m in the KC area so it’s not like I live in a small town like Hays, KS. A lot of these companies want to consolidate their jobs to their HQ in big cities.
What if people don’t want to live in these places like Dallas, LA or Atlanta?
Why the hell would you move to a place like that that is forcing you to work in the office? Traffic is hell and it costs way more to live there.
That’s why people don’t want to do it. If it was in KC, I would be more than fine going in. It’s the geography of it that doesn’t work. [Reply]
I feel for the people that went YOLO and moved to gods country Idaho to take advantage of low costs and WFH life and might find themselves in a position of having to relocate during a shit job and real estate market.
I relocated to a city where my company has an office and still fit what I was looking for lifestyle-wise.
Having WFH before the pandemic I always knew that all it takes is one out of touch executive to turn everything on its head so best to hedge. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KCUnited:
We just got a similar announcement last week.
Hybrid RTO minimum 3 days a week for anyone within 50 miles of an office, no exceptions.
People outside of the 50 mile radius are "unaffected" as of now but the writing on the wall is by the end of the year they'll be either required to relocate or be terminated.
Lot of speculation of the RTO announcement being a quiet firing initiative or an attempt to salvage the commercial real estate market.
Looking into it further it seems the hybrid RTO is going to be the equilibrium point of the post-pandemic work environment. Per LinkedIn fully remote position posting are trending lower while hybrid position posting are on the rise.
It doesn't feel like a coincidence that more RTO announcements keep popping up. We were told the decision was based on a combo of productivity data (bullshit) and industry trends.
I've been with my current employer for 2+ years and I'm somewhat fearful that they'll do this at some point. My contract states I have to be within a commutable distance (which also isn't defined by distance) for a hybrid work environment and I'd have 8 weeks notice to relocate.
Technically, my employer is hybrid now but they're not forcing anyone to go in though it's encouraged.
I do have a relocation stipend that would be distributed after I confirm physical relocation.
There are people that have been hired remotely or are assigned different offices (the nearest office to me is an hour or so away while my assigned one is 10ish hours away).
I think I'd quit at this point if they actually enforced the relocation or would not allow me to be assigned to the office that's much closer to me.
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
Yeah, I'm reading fair bit about it. Apparently Toilet and Douche is having a pretty sizable layoff. Which is weird, because there is a massive shortage of CPAs.
The area of professional services in general has been having layoffs more-so with consulting and advisory as opposed to tax, audit, etc., which is related more to the nature and structure of the projects and clients.
Most of the layoffs that have been reported for professional services (EY, Deloitte, KPMG, Accenture, etc.) have been reported to be in consulting/advisory and not accounting. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rams Fan:
Technically, my employer is hybrid now but they're not forcing anyone to go in though it's encouraged.
This is where we currently are as well. Kind of a don't ask, don't tell environment.
When I inquired how this new hybrid RTO initiative would be enforced, I got the sense that it would be through badge scan tracking...which sounds insane to me for salaried employees. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KCUnited:
This is where we currently are as well. Kind of a don't ask, don't tell environment.
When I inquired how this new hybrid RTO initiative would be enforced, I got the sense that it would be through badge scan tracking...which sounds insane to me for salaried employees.
Yeah, that's how I envision it would be enforced for us as well.
It literally doesn't make sense for us to go in-office as is unless it's for networking events internally, training, or to start a project.
The only times I've been in the office have been for training or going to a client site when the client paid for travel and we had a week-long meeting.
There's no point in me going into the office on a routine basis unless I'm based in the same city as my project team, which I'm not.
In some industries/sectors I get the importance of colocation and going in routinely if the entire team is going in or it's impossible to get work done or deliver when not in an office. But the vast majority of corporate jobs aren't like that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Welp go ahead and put Mr RunKC on this list.
I may be getting ****ed harder than Billay, which I didn’t think was possible.
I’m not getting fired or laid off though. My company got bought out by a corporate company back in 2018 so I’ve technically been corporate for 5 years.
They just sent out a “back to work” email but it’s a relocation thing that starts in the first week of August. They have their 3 biggest hub cities and KC is nowhere near them. The secondary cities aren’t close either.
So I’m not fired. I’m not laid off. They just want to cut a bunch of people (probably due to debt) and this is the best way.
Best part? I’m pretty sure I would be forced to resign bc I won’t accept moving to my new job location and they can claim job abandonment (3 days) if I don’t go.
So my only option appears to be resignation, which means no severance and no unemployment.
Originally Posted by Rams Fan:
Yeah, that's how I envision it would be enforced for us as well.
It literally doesn't make sense for us to go in-office as is unless it's for networking events internally, training, or to start a project.
The only times I've been in the office have been for training or going to a client site when the client paid for travel and we had a week-long meeting.
There's no point in me going into the office on a routine basis unless I'm based in the same city as my project team, which I'm not.
In some industries/sectors I get the importance of colocation and going in routinely if the entire team is going in or it's impossible to get work done or deliver when not in an office. But the vast majority of corporate jobs aren't like that.
Exact same here.
When it was first announced I was like this won't apply to me they just don't want to single out groups in the announcement so they included everyone to mitigate the initial reaction.
As the week went on and into the next its becoming clear that this is enterprise wide with little to no nuance among positions or roles or any value assessment for anyone. I'm one of 2 people here on my team that supports nationwide internal customers. Its beyond silly from a collaboration and productivity standpoint. I'll be working by myself and hopping on Zoom calls just like I do here at home. [Reply]
Don't work in an industry that's affected but always kind of figured the whole work from home thing would only last until the job market tightened back up and folks wouldn't just hand in resignations en masse to work elsewhere. [Reply]
