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Nzoner's Game Room>A Craig Stout theory on why Mahomes/offense has struggled.
Lzen 11:18 AM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
This team has always been kinda mistake prone. They struggled to put teams away last season. In '19 they'd make dumb mistakes too. The Rams game comes to mind. The Texans playoff game. But they always made huge plays to compensate.

We're seeing mistakes at a higher volume coupled with less explosive plays downfield. The fact that it takes them 12 plays to score is what's leading to the higher volume of turnovers.
I see your point but a little correction. The Rams game was in 2018.
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HC_Chief 11:08 AM 11-29-2021
Running game, quick short to intermediate passes, throw body blows until they start bringing more players up to the LOS. Andy knows the West Coast Offense (WCO). It is a perfect counter to Tampa-2. Teams will either have to tighten up closer to the LOS or they die by a thousand cuts. Either way, we got their ass. We just need to practice WCO fundamentals and be prepared to mix them in as necessary. It is interesting our high-powered explosive offense has struggled when forced to play basic sound fundamental football.
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ModSocks 11:13 AM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by HC_Chief:
throw body blows until they start bringing more players up to the LOS.
There's 6 games left in the season and that hasn't happened yet. It's not going to happen. At least not with teams playing the "Mahomes Formula".
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HC_Chief 11:16 AM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
There's 6 games left in the season and that hasn't happened yet. It's not going to happen. At least not with teams playing the "Mahomes Formula".
That's because we abandon the formula way too soon in games. Our scripted drives have been excellent. Great mix of run, quick passes, attacking the Tampa-2. Then we go full retard. Pass happy, forced RPO, abandon the run, long-developing plays... it is infuriating. If you can run at will on a team, DO IT. Nothing crushes a defense faster than a team committed to the run having their way over and over and over. It is physically and mentally taxing. That is when they start to creep up... and that's when we switch to 8th gear, not immediately after our first or second possession.
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Marcellus 11:21 AM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by HC_Chief:
That's because we abandon the formula way too soon in games. Our scripted drives have been excellent. Great mix of run, quick passes, attacking the Tampa-2. Then we go full reerun. Pass happy, forced RPO, abandon the run, long-developing plays... it is infuriating. If you can run at will on a team, DO IT. Nothing crushes a defense faster than a team committed to the run having their way over and over and over. It is physically and mentally taxing. That is when they start to creep up... and that's when we switch to 8th gear, not immediately after our first or second possession.
I disagree to an extent. Last week and many weeks there are drives that show this isn't the case.

Last week -

1-10 run for 5 yards.

2-5 run for -1 yard

3-6 incomplete pass and punt.

RRPP offense is not the way to score points, its as predictable as anything else.

Should have passed on 2nd down. Let the playmakers make plays.
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Marcellus 11:18 AM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
There's 6 games left in the season and that hasn't happened yet. It's not going to happen. At least not with teams playing the "Mahomes Formula".
The formula to keep Mahomes merely in the top 5 in passing yards, TD's etc...even with the drops, turnovers and early in the season very limited possesions?
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ModSocks 11:33 AM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by Marcellus:
The formula to keep Mahomes merely in the top 5 in passing yards, TD's etc...even with the drops, turnovers and early in the season very limited possesions?
Yes.

Because top 5 isn't #1, and our offense isn't as effective as it once was. You can argue that they're still effective. Sure. Because they are. But they aren't scoring the way they were, they're not chunking out big plays like they were. They're slowed down.

And there's more to slowing down the Chiefs than just Mahomes stat line.
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Marcellus 11:35 AM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Yes.

Because top 5 isn't #1, and our offense isn't as effective as it once was. You can argue that they're still effective. Sure. Because they are. But they aren't scoring the way they were, they're not chunking out big plays like they were. They're slowed down.

And there's more to slowing down the Chiefs than just Mahomes stat line.
I think what it points to is more other guys not doing their job more than Mahomes not doing his.

Which its why calling it the "Mahomes Defense" is silly.
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O.city 11:17 AM 11-29-2021
Yeah, teams aren't going to come out of it and play it different. We know what happens if you do that.
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Marcellus 11:28 AM 11-29-2021

Highest EPA/play on 3rd down, offenses

Cardinals 0.25
Colts 0.22
Packers 0.29
Chargers 0.19
Chiefs 0.15

Lowest EPA/play allowed on 3rd down, defenses
Cardinals -0.41
Panthers -0.24
Giants -0.22
Cowboys -0.22
Chiefs -0.21

— Timo Riske (@PFF_Moo) November 29, 2021

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dirk digler 12:01 PM 11-29-2021
I could buy this. I know the Ravens abandoned their normal blitz strategy and played 2 high but I don't think the offense struggled in that game.

As Detoxing rightly pointed out Mahomes has talked about this openly and teams aren't coming out of it at all.
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FloridaMan88 01:06 PM 11-29-2021
I think it's more of the Chiefs being their own worst enemies on offense with dropped passes, penalties, bad execution, etc., than anything opposing defenses are doing to them at this point.
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Pasta Little Brioni 01:18 PM 11-29-2021
Absolutely stupid. This has nothing to do with dropped open passes flying straight to the defender and fluke fumbles. The team has moved the ball up and down the field ALL year. Stop shooting themselves in the foot and points will follow. The team gas been the best at getting first downs on drives and on 3rd down. These looks aren't stopping shit.
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RaidersOftheCellar 05:34 PM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by Pasta Little Brother:
Absolutely stupid. This has nothing to do with dropped open passes flying straight to the defender and fluke fumbles. The team has moved the ball up and down the field ALL year. Stop shooting themselves in the foot and points will follow. The team gas been the best at getting first downs on drives and on 3rd down. These looks aren't stopping shit.
There have definitely been some games in which the offense struggled to move the ball.
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crayzkirk 01:33 PM 11-29-2021
I'm confused... if cover 2 is so good at taking away the big play and forcing teams to take small chunks and larger number of plays which increases the chances of a penalty or mistake, why would teams do anything else against anyone?

Or is this a better strategy against teams like the Chiefs and Bills who don't have the skill players to sit back and run the ball down their throats? Brady has made a career out of having a solid running game, good short passing game and occasional over the top play with a smothering defense.

Part of the problem is that the Chiefs don't have the running threat nor the mentality to keep running the ball. And other than Kelce and Hill, who have made their fair share of mistakes, the Chiefs have no one that Mahomes trusts in crucial situations. Teams would be stupid to not play the Chiefs in a cover 2 shell.
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