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Washington DC and The Holy Land>What should trump give to get his 5B for the wall?
RodeoPants2 03:42 PM 01-09-2019
Trump's approach here seems to be to whine and hope he gets his way. But if you want to make a deal, both sides need to be happy with it.

Trump is supposedly the master dealmaker, lol, clearly not.

What would you give the democrats in exchange for getting the wall?
[Reply]
RodeoPants2 01:19 PM 01-11-2019
Originally Posted by Donger:
No, I'm not. I'm asking you for this:

And which of them state that all things considered, illegals are a net positive for our economy?

Do you have that data or not?



Correct. It's from both legal and illegal. Since we don't have numbers on the percentages, I'm just using 50/50. That's still $13 billion a year. Make it 10% if you wish. That's still $5 billion, which is what Trump wants.
Your ask is intentionally obtuse. There's a wealth of evidence to consider regarding the economic impact of undocumented immigrants, some good and some bad, and what adults do is consider all the evidence, think critically for themselves, and make a judgement they can stand behind.

What you are doing is clinging to an old & uncertain metastudy because it conforms to your priors.
[Reply]
Donger 01:23 PM 01-11-2019
Originally Posted by RodeoPants2:
Your ask is intentionally obtuse. There's a wealth of evidence to consider regarding the economic impact of undocumented immigrants, some good and some bad, and what adults do is consider all the evidence, think critically for themselves, and make a judgement they can stand behind.

What you are doing is clinging to an old & uncertain metastudy because it conforms to your priors.
You asked me, and I provided. I don't think it's too much to ask you for the same. Or, maybe it is?

I'm not clinging to anything. Again, you asked and I provided. You just don't like it.

Did you look up the numbers on illegals in country in 1995 compared to today?
[Reply]
Bugeater 01:48 PM 01-11-2019
Originally Posted by RodeoPants2:
Where did I say that? Also, since I know I didn't, what's it like to be illiterate?
Post 148 item #4. Granted I had to read between the lines a bit, but I assume that's reason you pointed that out.
[Reply]
RodeoPants2 02:36 PM 01-11-2019
Originally Posted by Donger:
You asked me, and I provided. I don't think it's too much to ask you for the same. Or, maybe it is?

I'm not clinging to anything. Again, you asked and I provided. You just don't like it.
I made zero declarative statements about the economic impact of undocumented immigrants. You did. I've shared my conclusions and the data I'm using to back them up.

Originally Posted by :
Did you look up the numbers on illegals in country in 1995 compared to today?
Yes
[Reply]
Donger 02:40 PM 01-11-2019
Originally Posted by RodeoPants2:
I made zero declarative statements about the economic impact of undocumented immigrants. You did. I've shared my conclusions and the data I'm using to back them up.
Perhaps not. But you certainly took issue with the GAO report for whatever reason. And sure, I absolutely did. And there's no reason for me not to do so. Hell, I'm just posting the same as the GAO found.

Originally Posted by RodeoPants2:
Yes
Good. It was higher back then, right?
[Reply]
RodeoPants2 02:48 PM 01-11-2019
Right? I think using the GAO report as the single source when so much more is available is fairly asinine. First, because of its flaws - it's simply citing 3 other reports, and the methodology of those reports isn't clear, and (to the reports credit) it makes clear the level of uncertainty involved. And second, because to do so would ignore the glut of additional research that's available on a complex and interesting topic. Part of me feels disappointed here because I thought it would be interesting to discuss the positives / negatives of undocumented impact in some detail, but we can hardly do that if your refuse to engage or think critically, and try to pretend only a single report exists as a reliable source.
[Reply]
Donger 02:51 PM 01-11-2019
Originally Posted by RodeoPants2:
Right? I think using the GAO report as the single source when so much more is available is fairly asinine. First, because of its flaws - it's simply citing 3 other reports, and the methodology of those reports isn't clear, and (to the reports credit) it makes clear the level of uncertainty involved. And second, because to do so would ignore the glut of additional research that's available on a complex and interesting topic. Part of me feels disappointed here because I thought it would be interesting to discuss the positives / negatives of undocumented impact in some detail, but we can hardly do that if your refuse to engage or think critically, and try to pretend only a single report exists as a reliable source.
As I've said repeatedly, please present another reputable source which takes all things into consideration and comes to a different (i.e, illegals are a net positive) conclusion.

Do you have one, or not?
[Reply]
RodeoPants2 02:54 PM 01-11-2019
I don't need one because I'm capable of reading evidence and considering it critically then drawing my own conclusion.
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Donger 02:55 PM 01-11-2019
Originally Posted by RodeoPants2:
I don't need one because I'm capable of reading evidence and considering it critically then drawing my own conclusion.
Considering your apparent rejection of the GAO report, you'll forgive me if I find that to be a laughable assertion. It's seems like you just don't want to believe it because it doesn't fit your narrative.
[Reply]
MagicHef 03:37 PM 01-11-2019
Originally Posted by RodeoPants2:
I don't need one because I'm capable of reading evidence and considering it critically then drawing my own conclusion.
What evidence are you reading if you don't have a source?
[Reply]
mlyonsd 03:39 PM 01-11-2019
Originally Posted by MagicHef:
What evidence are you reading if you don't have a source?
CNN
[Reply]
RodeoPants2 03:57 PM 01-11-2019
Originally Posted by Donger:
Considering your apparent rejection of the GAO report, you'll forgive me if I find that to be a laughable assertion. It's seems like you just don't want to believe it because it doesn't fit your narrative.
I don't reject it, I just see it as one piece of a puzzle

Originally Posted by MagicHef:
What evidence are you reading if you don't have a source?
I posted a thorough wikipedia article that covers the main aspects of this problem and cites numerous government & private research studies
[Reply]
Donger 04:34 PM 01-11-2019
Originally Posted by RodeoPants2:
I don't reject it, I just see it as one piece of a puzzle
It states that illegals are a net cost of in between $2 billion and $19 billion/year.

Do you accept that conclusion?
[Reply]
vailpass 04:43 PM 01-11-2019
Originally Posted by RodeoPants2:



So you think the constitution should only apply to some Americans?


That's dodging the question.

But to reply to your dodge question: I believe the intentional circumvention of our birthright citizenship provision should be preventing by not allowing those births to take place on American soil.

I am also in favor of an amendment denying citizenship to any non-citizens who manage to evade the authorities and sneak into our country illegally to birth those babies here.

That plain enough for you?
[Reply]
Donger 04:53 PM 01-11-2019
Welp...

"It's the easy way out," Trump said of the national emergency route. "Congress should do this. This is too simple. It's too basic. And Congress should do this."

"If they can't do it, I will declare a national emergency. I have the absolute right to do it," Trump said.

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