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Washington DC and The Holy Land>Obama: walls are NOT “immoral”
Prison Bitch 08:08 AM 01-09-2019
After all, he got one built in Jordan for $500m of our tax dollars:


The Great Wall of Jordan: How the US Wants to Keep the Islamic State Out

By William M. Arkin Feb 24, 2016


The Obama administration is spending close to a half a billion dollars to build a sophisticated electronic fence along Jordan's northern and eastern borders, a wall which US strategic planners hope will stem the flow of refugees and also wall off the increasingly important American base from the disintegration of Syria and Iraq.

The wall, which began as a $20 million project in 2008 to erect a set of surveillance towers along a 30-mile (50 km) stretch of the border with Syria, has since expanded into a program costing half a billion dollars, according to defense officials who spoke to VICE News....

https://news.vice.com/en_us/article/...amic-state-out

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Hoopsdoc 02:45 PM 01-09-2019
Originally Posted by Donger:
So the doctors who "let" these kids die are culpable, too? Or, is influenza a nasty bug and can be/is a killer? The poor kid was probably exhausted from being dragged over 1,000 miles by his parents anyway. Sad, eh?
But Orange Man Bad!!!
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Amnorix 03:46 PM 01-09-2019
Some people are arguing that a wall is "immoral"? That's absurd.

It may be a stupid f'ing idea, but it's not "immoral". Enforcing border security is not immoral, nor are geopolitical boundaries. All that said, I oppose the wall as a stupid f'ing idea.
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Donger 03:47 PM 01-09-2019
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
Some people are arguing that a wall is "immoral"? That's absurd.

It may be a stupid f'ing idea, but it's not "immoral". Enforcing border security is not immoral, nor are geopolitical boundaries. All that said, I oppose the wall as a stupid f'ing idea.
Along the entire border? How about the most highly-trafficked areas?
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Bump 03:55 PM 01-09-2019
Originally Posted by RodeoPants2:
People die all the time, sure.

Children dying of preventable causes in the one of the richest countries in the world? That does NOT happen all the time. It is reprehensible.
ya surely it wasn't the parents fault for dragging their kids through a desert and by the time they reached the border it was too late. Totes not the parents fault for killing their own kids so they can get tax payer benefits! Accountability, what's that?
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Bump 03:56 PM 01-09-2019
Anybody who says that the wall is immoral and wouldn't work at the same time is a ****ing idiot, contradicting themselves. If it were immoral, that means it would work.
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Amnorix 04:42 PM 01-09-2019
Originally Posted by Donger:
Along the entire border? How about the most highly-trafficked areas?
Let me rephrase -- I'm in favor of reasonable measures to ensure border security, including the prevention of trespass into our country by illegal aliens. It's my understanding that a physical wall is a poor return on investment for achieving these ends.

My preference would be to actual experts report as to what the best combination of programs and policies to achieve these ends would be. It could be a physical wall in certain limited high-traffic geographic areas, but I would suspect that drones, increased border patrol staffing and other measures would prove far more cost effective than a literal wall.

For the record, I would also favor a Constitutional amendment eliminating birthright citizenship.
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Donger 04:43 PM 01-09-2019
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
Let me rephrase -- I'm in favor of reasonable measures to ensure border security, including the prevention of trespass into our country by illegal aliens. It's my understanding that a physical wall is a poor return on investment for achieving these ends.

My preference would be to actual experts report as to what the best combination of programs and policies to achieve these ends would be. It could be a physical wall in certain limited high-traffic geographic areas, but I would suspect that drones, increased border patrol staffing and other measures would prove far more cost effective than a literal wall.

For the record, I would also favor a Constitutional amendment eliminating birthright citizenship.
Considering that the wall that was built in between SD and Tijuana reduced illegal crossings by 95%, I don't see how you can call it a poor ROI.

I agree on the rest.
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Amnorix 04:43 PM 01-09-2019
Originally Posted by Bump:
Anybody who says that the wall is immoral and wouldn't work at the same time is a ****ing idiot, contradicting themselves. If it were immoral, that means it would work.

FTR, I don't contend that it is immoral. Rather I contend it is not likely to be a cost-effective approach. If the experts who deal with border security issues all the time tell us we really do need to have a wall at certain points, I'm fine with that also.
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tmax63 05:35 PM 01-09-2019
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
FTR, I don't contend that it is immoral. Rather I contend it is not likely to be a cost-effective approach. If the experts who deal with border security issues all the time tell us we really do need to have a wall at certain points, I'm fine with that also.
It is my understanding that the request the bad orange man is asking for was created by DHS and the Border Patrol. I think it would be hard to find better subject matter experts than the BP and DHS for the logistics behind it.
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Prison Bitch 05:36 PM 01-09-2019
Originally Posted by Bump:
Anybody who says that the wall is immoral and wouldn't work at the same time is a ****ing idiot, contradicting themselves. If it were immoral, that means it would work.
No matter how many times this is explained to them, they don’t get it.


But they know their audience. Throw every objection at it, let your lemmings attach to the one most powerful to them, and win.
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Donger 05:38 PM 01-09-2019
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
No matter how many times this is explained to them, they don’t get it.


But they know their audience. Throw every objection at it, let your lemmings attach to the one most powerful to them, and win.
You two are missing their point. Its very existence is immoral.
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HonestChieffan 05:39 PM 01-09-2019
Ill listen to the morality of a wall when we defund abortions. Then we may have an opportunity to discuss morals.
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Amnorix 05:40 PM 01-09-2019
Originally Posted by Donger:
Considering that the wall that was built in between SD and Tijuana reduced illegal crossings by 95%, I don't see how you can call it a poor ROI.

I agree on the rest.

Like I said: "It could be a physical wall in certain limited high-traffic geographic areas"
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Prison Bitch 05:41 PM 01-09-2019
Originally Posted by Donger:
You two are missing their point. Its very existence is immoral.
I’m perfectly aware that’s their real motivation.


They think it’s immoral.
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Amnorix 05:48 PM 01-09-2019
Originally Posted by tmax63:
It is my understanding that the request the bad orange man is asking for was created by DHS and the Border Patrol. I think it would be hard to find better subject matter experts than the BP and DHS for the logistics behind it.

The way this stuff would ordinarily work is that there would be a funding request for a wall, Congress would hold hearings, speak with the relevant agencies, and potentially other experts, then decide whether to fund or not.

If all that has happened (and if it has, I'm unaware of it), and there was a general consensus in favor of a wall, then ok. Note, of course, that I have no idea who is in charge over at Border Patrol etc. If it's just Trump cronies supporting Trump's campaign pledge, then I'm much less interested in their opinion. Not that their opinion is invalid, but rather that they're obviously biased -- their boss wants a wall, so GO WALL! -- and so it's heavily discounted.

I want sane, rational, cost-effective, BUT EFFECTIVE border security. I have no visceral dislike for a wall. I don't think the Israelis, for example, are nuts to have a wall. They obviously need one. If we need one too, fine. If not, also fine. Whatever works best (within reason as to budgetary priorities, etc.).
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