Kansas City is trading its first-round pick Thursday night, along with three other picks in the 2021 and 2022 drafts, to the Baltimore Ravens in exchange for Pro Bowl OT Orlando Brown and one pick in the 2021 draft and another in 2022, per sources.
Originally Posted by kccrow:
So, if we call it even because Mahomes' drifting also avoided some potential pressures Brown would have given up, how then do you truly grade Brown?
I watched Brown like a hawk for most of that game, to be honest. I was really curious to see what we had there. I didn't like it... at all. I don't expect him to be an upgrade to Fisher or even an equal, because that could take a while. I also didn't expect what I saw, and I'm quite worried that the slate of ERs he's going to face are going to start getting home.
He was pretty much who I thought he'd be. He was...fine.
No, he's almost certainly not going to be an upgrade on Fisher, at least not in Pass Pro. That's in part because nobody ever gave Fisher enough credit but also because that's just not Brown's strength.
Brown isn't Trent Williams, fellas. He almost certainly never will be. He's probably not even going to be Laremy Tunsil. He's a good RT and probably an adequate LT who may make some reputational Pro Bowls here and there but isn't likely to be a true difference maker. And that's fine - he's still an asset by merely not being a liability at a difficult position to fill.
He's a starting caliber NFL LT. We didn't have one of those. We gave up the equivalent of a mid-2nd to get him and ultimately if we have to move on from him, it is what it is. 2nd rounders get used on things less useful than a single season of an adequate LT all the time. I wouldn't like it, but if he's looking to be in that top tier of starting LTs on his pay scale, I don't think the Chiefs are smart to do so. Tag him for a season with a plan for 2023 in place and move along if needed.
If we don't make the move for Brown we almost certainly draft Teven Jenkins and Jenkins has already gone down for the season due to a known back issue. Back surgery for a guy who hasn't even taken an NFL snap doesn't bode well.
OBJ was the best option still on the table for a team that is trying to win a championship. Veach did what he could given the cards he had available. I can't fault him for taking the best option he had, even if that option isn't perfect. [Reply]
the first sack by Joe Jackson (after Niang locked him up) is because Kelce ran the wrong route and Mahomes pulled the ball down and ran into a Blocked Jackson.
Second sack is because Mahomes set too deep in the pocket giving the rushers easy angle.
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
I'm still optimistic for Brown only because I just find it hard to believe he can play at a Pro Bowl level in one offense and look hopeless in another. It's not like the Ravens never threw the ball. They've got more gimmick stuff with their QB, but like Reid says, it's still blocking and tackling. Lamar DID drop back to pass at least a few times each game, which required Brown to... you know... do that thing that LTs are supposed to do. You know... their #1 job: protect the damn blind side.
If the Chiefs are asking him to do a lot more than what he was for the Ravens, then we've probably come across the reason why so many teams passed on him in the draft when they saw his poor combine numbers.
It's worth noting, though, that even when Lamar drops back, a lot of rushers won't explode upfield on him because of his ability to break contain.
There's no easier guy to pass block for in the league than Lamar Jackson. And because he did so much work over the middle and in the intermediate zones, Brown could take his short power sets and know that Jackson wasn't going to go deep.
We're asking Brown to do something much different than he did in Baltimore and it's much more difficult. Assuming he'll be able to do so at a similar level is kinda like saying that anybody that hit in AAA can also hit in the MLB. Over large numbers it will usually translate okay, but some guys have very specific flaws that make them AAAA players.
Brown just might. Or he just might be being asked to do more than he's capable of doing here because he doesn't have the baseline athleticism that may be required for deep sets.
We'll see. I suspect there will be improvement, I just don't think we can count on a ton of it. If he gives us an average to slightly above average season at LT, I'm going to consider it a win. I just don't think he's quite cut out for anything more than that. His size can be an enormous asset for him and help mitigate some of the stiffness, but it won't eliminate it. [Reply]
the first sack by Joe Jackson (after Niang locked him up) is because Kelce ran the wrong route and Mahomes pulled the ball down and ran into a Blocked Jackson.
Second sack is because Mahomes set too deep in the pocket giving the rushers easy angle.
Just remember that Pat will ALWAYS take the blame. "We did X" when something good happens "I did Y" when something bad happens. Leadership 101 shit.
I know he says he drifted too far...but did he? I mean he planted that back foot like it was a designed 5 step drop and immediately tried to push up into the pocket. He didn't drift - as soon as he hit his back foot he was swallowed whole.
There's no way to be certain but even if both tackles did collapse, Mahomes would've never said as such. He'd have taken that blame anyway. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Just remember that Pat will ALWAYS take the blame. "We did X" when something good happens "I did Y" when something bad happens. Leadership 101 shit.
I know he says he drifted too far...but did he? I mean he planted that back foot like it was a designed 5 step drop and immediately tried to push up into the pocket. He didn't drift - as soon as he hit his back foot he was swallowed whole.
There's no way to be certain but even if both tackles did collapse, Mahomes would've never said as such. He'd have taken that blame anyway.
Did you read thru his thread there?
I thought there was some interesting stuff about depth of drop etc.
Pat hit about the 10 yard mark and didn't step up much into the clean pocket. He did that quite a bit last year, I noticed it Sunday to. I understand last year, the interior was awful. But now, it's about as good as it gets in there so he's gonna have to settle in about the 7 yard mark and throw from there. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Did you read thru his thread there?
I thought there was some interesting stuff about depth of drop etc.
Pat hit about the 10 yard mark and didn't step up much into the clean pocket. He did that quite a bit last year, I noticed it Sunday to. I understand last year, the interior was awful. But now, it's about as good as it gets in there so he's gonna have to settle in about the 7 yard mark and throw from there.
I didn't.
He didn't step up because he didn't have time. If the depth of the drop was supposed to be 5 steps, he had no chance to step up. As soon as he hit the back of his drop he was boned. And if the timing of the patterns requires a 5 step drop to be in rhythm, there's just not much he can do there - he's can't know that he's going to have to abort his drop-back.
I mean the instant he hit his back foot he was taken down. And he's not acting at all like he's supposed to be in a 3-step drop. I mean...I guess maybe it was a designed 5 step and he over-strided to create a deeper pocket than designed, but that seems awfully unlikely.
Just giving it the sniff test, that looks like a designed 5 step drop that the Ts just couldn't create a pocket for because both guys are massive dudes that may struggle with a deep set. [Reply]
And watching both Brown and Niang, neither guy looks like they're 'controlled' in their chase there. Brown punched and set early, before Garrett committed. Niang bit on a shoulder deke.
Sorry but that doesn't look like a play that was designed for a yard shorter drop that Pat messed up. That looks like a deep set with both Ts not getting there on time because of technique mistakes. [Reply]
He didn't step up because he didn't have time. If the depth of the drop was supposed to be 5 steps, he had no chance to step up. As soon as he hit the back of his drop he was boned. And if the timing of the patterns requires a 5 step drop to be in rhythm, there's just not much he can do there - he's can't know that he's going to have to abort his drop-back.
I mean the instant he hit his back foot he was taken down. And he's not acting at all like he's supposed to be in a 3-step drop. I mean...I guess maybe it was a designed 5 step and he over-strided to create a deeper pocket than designed, but that seems awfully unlikely.
Just giving it the sniff test, that looks like a designed 5 step drop that the Ts just couldn't create a pocket for because both guys are massive dudes that may struggle with a deep set.
I'm not sure. He hit his back foot and a split second later was engulfed.
It was 3 and 10 so the Browns were tee'ing off. Frankly, I'm not sure that taking a deep drop there was necessarily the play call in hindsight. Thats where we miss the screen game IMO. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
I'm not sure. He hit his back foot and a split second later was engulfed.
It was 3 and 10 so the Browns were tee'ing off. Frankly, I'm not sure that taking a deep drop there was necessarily the play call in hindsight. Thats where we miss the screen game IMO.
Does seem odd that on a play with a deep drop from the shotgun, you're putting a double on the interior (Thuney and Creed) with Clowney and Garrett being on an island. [Reply]
I guess the issue is we don't truly know what depth the play call called for.
When Mahomes gets to the top of the dropback he's 10 yards back and the Receivers on the route all have their back turned to Mahomes and seem to be running deep. pic.twitter.com/wysgN78U1x
This is where I'm not sure. If he steps up here it helps the angle, but I'm just not sure that he's actually coached to step up here. I mean, there's a massive pocket there. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Does seem odd that on a play with a deep drop from the shotgun, you're putting a double on the interior (Thuney and Creed) with Clowney and Garrett being on an island.
Yarris brings up a good point in that they had Niang working on the 9 yard drop point instead of a traditional 7.5 8 because Pat drifts. He was at 10ish here, which gives those two wide 9's a straighter line?
To us it seems like small differences but i'm guessing it matters alot? [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Does seem odd that on a play with a deep drop from the shotgun, you're putting a double on the interior (Thuney and Creed) with Clowney and Garrett being on an island.
It also seems possible to me that at this point Pat needs to know that they are infact by themselves out there, so as soon as you hit the back foot, start coming forward? I dunno.
I guess the issue is we don't truly know what depth the play call called for.
When Mahomes gets to the top of the dropback he's 10 yards back and the Receivers on the route all have their back turned to Mahomes and seem to be running deep. pic.twitter.com/wysgN78U1x
This is where I'm not sure. If he steps up here it helps the angle, but I'm just not sure that he's actually coached to step up here. I mean, there's a massive pocket there.
But he's not at the back of his drop yet. You don't 'step up' off your left foot as a righthanded QB. He'd have to just abort the drop altogether and you don't go teaching a QB to do that. He had no reason to just assume his LT would get blown by.
Like I said - IF that was a designed 5 step drop, I don't think there's any reason to tell him he should've aborted it at 3; he just couldn't have known and that will create more bad habits than it helps. And if it was 5 steps, he was screwed by the time he got to the top of it.
If it was 3 and he didn't come set, that's an issue. But I have a hard time thinking it was given that nobody's really starting their breaks yet in the pattern. It looks like a designed deep set with a couple of shot options out wide and Hill as a safety valve underneath. [Reply]
I guess the issue is we don't truly know what depth the play call called for.
When Mahomes gets to the top of the dropback he's 10 yards back and the Receivers on the route all have their back turned to Mahomes and seem to be running deep. pic.twitter.com/wysgN78U1x
This is where I'm not sure. If he steps up here it helps the angle, but I'm just not sure that he's actually coached to step up here. I mean, there's a massive pocket there.
There definitely is. You cannot tell everything with a still shot, but he sure looks like he would be in good shape if he was closer to the LOS [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Yarris brings up a good point in that they had Niang working on the 9 yard drop point instead of a traditional 7.5 8 because Pat drifts. He was at 10ish here, which gives those two wide 9's a straighter line?
To us it seems like small differences but i'm guessing it matters alot?
Niang bit on the shoulder shimmy.
He can say "well Pat was designed to be in shorter" but if Niang doesn't bite on Clowney's inside deke, he doesn't lose the rep.
His trainer is rationalizing a loss. And Pat's secure enough in his standing to help him do so. [Reply]