ChiefsPlanet Mobile
Page 17 of 19
« First < 71314151617 1819 >
Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>Let's talk Defensive Line
Nightfyre 10:49 AM 04-17-2023
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Every down is a passing down in the modern NFL.

If having him on the field encourages teams to run the ball more - hell, that's value in its own right.

But in clear running situations I'm just going to go ahead and have a body in there. Nnadi and a 4th/5th rounder? A FA pickup this summer like Wormley?

I just don't care as much about the position as many others do. We HAVE our monster in the middle. Would there be some value in another guy like Smith alongside him? Sure - but hell, I just don't think fat/heavy guys are that hard to find.

And no team will EVER double-team Mazi Smith to set up Chris Jones. Jones is going to demand the double teams - full stop. The only time you'll see Smith doubled is on run plays and if that's the case - fine. But nobody's going to do the math and choose to free single Jones in a passing situation in favor of Mazi Smith and his half sack/season production.
When you put a freak like Mazi in the one gap, imo, they will blow up the guards right shoulder if the center doesn't help resulting in complete loss of that gap. And rapidly. The 1 tech is designed to demand the centers assignment.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:01 AM 04-17-2023
Originally Posted by Nightfyre:
When you put a freak like Mazi in the one gap, imo, they will blow up the guards right shoulder if the center doesn't help resulting in complete loss of that gap. And rapidly. The 1 tech is designed to demand the centers assignment.
Were that the case he'd have been far more dominant in college.

I just can't reconcile the idea that Mazi is a freak when you watch him be fairly pedestrian in college.

I don't see why I should expect him to be a difference maker at the next level when he went in the Big 10.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:03 AM 04-17-2023
Now that said - I think he has a super high floor and if the Chiefs traded up for him in 2 I wouldn't lose my mind. It's just not the direction I'd go.
[Reply]
Nightfyre 11:29 AM 04-17-2023
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Now that said - I think he has a super high floor and if the Chiefs traded up for him in 2 I wouldn't lose my mind. It's just not the direction I'd go.
To be clear, I value what I think he could bring. Not enough to pick him straight up at 31, but am very comfortable with the idea of going and getting him at an appropriate point in day two.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 11:46 AM 04-17-2023
Originally Posted by Nightfyre:
To be clear, I value what I think he could bring. Not enough to pick him straight up at 31, but am very comfortable with the idea of going and getting him at an appropriate point in day two.
But this is where you lose me a bit.

If this is a guy who's so dynamic and so disruptive that teams will have no choice but to take their chances with Chris Jones rather than have him blow apart their interior - that's a 1st round pick.

I don't see that ceiling so I seen a high floor player at a position of need and approach it not unlike the Bolton or Morse selections - safe picks with a little upside in the 2nd is fine.
[Reply]
Nightfyre 01:22 PM 04-17-2023
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
But this is where you lose me a bit.

If this is a guy who's so dynamic and so disruptive that teams will have no choice but to take their chances with Chris Jones rather than have him blow apart their interior - that's a 1st round pick.

I don't see that ceiling so I seen a high floor player at a position of need and approach it not unlike the Bolton or Morse selections - safe picks with a little upside in the 2nd is fine.
At the end of the day, he's still a 1 tech, with pass rush upside that I like. Nnadi can play the spot serviceably on run downs, and we just have to live with a body there on pass downs as the roster stands or if we draft a Byron young type late in the draft.

Mazi is different in my view. He's incredibly strong, heavy, long, and can give you over 50 snaps a game there. So trading up in the second is as much premium as I would give for prospects of that nature not named Suh. And yeah, he changes the ability to rush four rather than always blitzing for pressure. Is that worth 31 though? Or should the Chiefs be looking to identify their long term EDGE there? I think getting both accomplished with these athletes makes a ton of sense for locking in a core defensive line group for the next 4 years.

If you can find a solid right tackle and a developmental guard late in the draft, the trenches could be locked in for phase 2 of mahomes career.

Oh and one secondary consideration: the fifth year option feels like a lot better value on a premium edge vs 1 tech.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 01:46 PM 04-17-2023
Originally Posted by Nightfyre:
Oh and one secondary consideration: the fifth year option feels like a lot better value on a premium edge vs 1 tech.
On the flipside, you're a lot more likely to find an excellent 1-tech at 31 than you are a premium edge who's going to get a 2nd contract.

It happens, to be sure. But a DE version of Aaron Donald, who was just so very clearly an absolute monster in college, goes 1.1. It's not smart, no, but it's the reality of it. Clowney went 1.1 in that draft because he had similar physical traits to Donald (less productivity) but the length to play DE.

It's similar to the market efficiency that comes from having a truly elite pass-catching TE. They just don't get paid as much as WRs, right wrong or otherwise.
[Reply]
JPH83 04:13 PM 04-17-2023
I still think the best approach at DT might be to double dip. If you can get an undersized guy with a little juice to support Jones as a pass rusher like Kobie Turner in R4, or Karl Brooks if he slips to there, and then a guy like Brodric Martin or Jerrod Clark a little later as a run stuffer, I think that goes a fair way and might be more impactful than a guy like Mazi Smith alone. That way you can use the first 3 picks on "premium" positions like DE and needs like WR and OT. I keep coming back to DE, WR, OT, DT as the first 4 picks. Then anything from RB, TE, G, DT, DE and WR that makes sense.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 04:18 PM 04-17-2023
Interestingly, I just ran a draft that I think went pretty sensibly through the first 5:

Harrison
Rice
Carter (Edge)
Pickens (DT)
Schoonmaker

Then it went completely off the damn rails but I also couldn't convince myself it would be a bad idea:

166: Colby Wooden (Doubling up at edge)
178: Moro Ojomo (Doubling up at DT)
217: Anthony Johnson
249: Keondre Coburn - Now TRIPLING up at DT but there's no way you could pass on him here.
250: Evan Hull


So I didn't get a CB and I'd have liked to have managed it. But even after TRIPLING up at DT and really hitting the DL hard through the middle rounds, I covered a TON of needs with high end talent that fits the squad really well.

I think you might be right - this might be a numbers game waiting to happen.
[Reply]
Couch-Potato 06:50 PM 04-17-2023
Stealers reportedly trying to trade up with CHI for the #9 pick "to take J Carter"
[Reply]
Mecca 08:51 AM 04-18-2023
Originally Posted by Couch-Potato:
Stealers reportedly trying to trade up with CHI for the #9 pick "to take J Carter"
If that is true it's because Pittsburgh sees him as a top 5 player and his fall as their 1 shot at one.
[Reply]
RunKC 08:49 AM 04-18-2023
Really like the Mizzou kid Isaiah McGuire. He’s projected as a 3rd rd pick. And honestly if he somehow fell to us in rd 3 I would take him even if we already drafted and edge
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 09:15 AM 04-18-2023
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Really like the Mizzou kid Isaiah McGuire. He’s projected as a 3rd rd pick. And honestly if he somehow fell to us in rd 3 I would take him even if we already drafted and edge
I think he's more of a 4th rounder but yeah - I mentioned him in the CP Mock thread - loud tools. There's a lot to like there.

What's nice about McGuire is that he was really really raw coming into Mizzou and just kept on developing. He got a little better every year.

But ultimately if KC took him in the 3rd, I wouldn't complain. I wouldn't love it if they'd already taken an edge player (2 DEs in the first 3 rounds is a hair too much draft capital for a team that needs to add talent at OL, DT and WR as well) but if they go with OT, WR or DT with their first couple picks, I wouldn't mind him as their first edge taken in the 3rd.

I think part of it is that Mizzou fans are damn hard on their own. It was why more people should've listened to the Mizzou folks when they were saying that KC was going to love Morse and Bolton. If WE'RE supporting a guy, he must be a pretty strong get.

I don't have the same level of affinity for McGuire that I did for Bolton or Morse, but I like him well enough.
[Reply]
kccrow 01:34 PM 04-22-2023
I feel like Siaki Ika continues to be the "forgotten man" when it comes to NT prospects. No, he'll never be a pass rusher and he also won't be a 3-down player but man if he doesn't reset the LOS on 1st and 2nd down for you. If you can get his weight down, maybe he can transform into a 3-down player but I won't hold my breath there.

He's alot of a young Danny Shelton but I think he's quicker. What do you pay for that? Would you pay for that? He still carries a late 2nd to early 3rd round grade from most pundits.

One thing for sure, especially in a one-gap scheme, is he's going to force the guard and center to account for him because he's going to be a handful for any guard to take on one-on-one. I think he's the type of player that has enough juice to make you pay because he's going to free a guy up or he's going to have his guy in your QBs lap. He'll definitely be a LB's best friend.

I don't like him as much as I like Benton and Smith, obviously, and I like him for different reasons than a guy like Zacch Pickens. I'd take him before I took Gervon Dexter. I think there's a lot to be said about a DTs snap quickness and he has it. His arm length hurts but he's a hard-charging bull with brute strength and that's that's difficult to stop on it's own.

He's a low-key target I think you have to consider at 63 depending on how the board falls.
[Reply]
MahomesMagic 03:28 PM 04-23-2023
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I feel like Siaki Ika continues to be the "forgotten man" when it comes to NT prospects. No, he'll never be a pass rusher and he also won't be a 3-down player but man if he doesn't reset the LOS on 1st and 2nd down for you. If you can get his weight down, maybe he can transform into a 3-down player but I won't hold my breath there.

He's alot of a young Danny Shelton but I think he's quicker. What do you pay for that? Would you pay for that? He still carries a late 2nd to early 3rd round grade from most pundits.

One thing for sure, especially in a one-gap scheme, is he's going to force the guard and center to account for him because he's going to be a handful for any guard to take on one-on-one. I think he's the type of player that has enough juice to make you pay because he's going to free a guy up or he's going to have his guy in your QBs lap. He'll definitely be a LB's best friend.

I don't like him as much as I like Benton and Smith, obviously, and I like him for different reasons than a guy like Zacch Pickens. I'd take him before I took Gervon Dexter. I think there's a lot to be said about a DTs snap quickness and he has it. His arm length hurts but he's a hard-charging bull with brute strength and that's that's difficult to stop on it's own.

He's a low-key target I think you have to consider at 63 depending on how the board falls.

How would you view him vs Alim McNeil from 2021 draft? I normally don't get excited by NT, run-stuffer types high but McNeil was just fun to watch as a prospect.
[Reply]
Page 17 of 19
« First < 71314151617 1819 >
Up