Figured we’d start a thread to share and debate mock drafts we find around the web, even though we all know the mocks we produce ourselves here in the Draft Forum are far superior! [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Just looking at those picks in the 30s, there are a bunch of guys I'd be annoyed about passing upon. Who did the Chiefs take in the 1st in this one?
Simmons, iirc.
I'd be pissed if we skipped those guys for him. [Reply]
A healthy Simmons is better than any player that will possibly be available other than Nolen, who will also only be there for reasons other than football.
Some of you are just way too extreme with the anti-Simmons stuff. And I'm just not seeing it outside of CP. I'm starting to think we have some groupthink going on here.
It's one thing to be concerned about the injury and not wanting to take the risk. It's another to pretend he isn't a top 15 talent when healthy that has no business being available at 31 otherwise. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
A healthy Simmons is better than any player that will possibly be available other than Nolen, who will also only be there for reasons other than football.
Some of you are just way too extreme with the anti-Simmons stuff. And I'm just not seeing it outside of CP. I'm starting to think we have some groupthink going on here.
It's one thing to be concerned about the injury and not wanting to take the risk. It's another to pretend he isn't a top 15 talent when healthy that has no business being available at 31 otherwise.
The issue isn't talent. The issue is that he actually did get injured. He has a very severe injury when it comes to football. Sorry if talent gets trumped by the reality of the injury for many of us but it absolutely is an issue. The issue as a whole in the national media is that most of them don't know he had a patella tendon tear; you still have them regurgitating "ACL injury." I screamed from the mountain tops that it would be idiotic of teams to take a player in the 1st round, or even the 2nd, coming off an Achilles. That turned out to be spot on because none of them have produced anywhere near average. Taking Simmons coming off this injury is an enormous risk. It's not about what he was, it's about what he might be now. This injury healing has absolutely no bearing on that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
A healthy Simmons is better than any player that will possibly be available other than Nolen, who will also only be there for reasons other than football.
Some of you are just way too extreme with the anti-Simmons stuff. And I'm just not seeing it outside of CP. I'm starting to think we have some groupthink going on here.
It's one thing to be concerned about the injury and not wanting to take the risk. It's another to pretend he isn't a top 15 talent when healthy that has no business being available at 31 otherwise.
He absolutely was a top 15 talent.
The issue is that, even if he is what is “healthy” for him now, the athleticism and explosion off that leg might not be the same as it was before the injury.
Most of the guy who suffer this injury lose some explosiveness coming back from it. Even when healthy and cleared to play.
Healthy Simmons now just might not ever be what healthy Simmons was before. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
He absolutely was a top 15 talent.
The issue is that, even if he is what is “healthy” for him now, the athleticism and explosion off that leg might not be the same as it was before the injury.
Most of the guy who suffer this injury lose some explosiveness coming back from it. Even when healthy and cleared to play.
Healthy Simmons now just might not ever be what healthy Simmons was before.
With that level or risk, him getting back to 'what he was before' has to mean a top 5 talent, IMO. That's where the risk is worth the reward.
Simmons is, IMO, a guy who wouldn't have clearly set himself apart from the Campbell or Membou in an OT draft that is pretty dang weak at the top. Even healthy, I'm not sure he's the top OT in the class.
"What he was" has to be INCREDIBLY valuable in order for me to be willing to look past the injury and be willing to take the risk. I just don't think he was THAT good. Top 15 -- sure.
But top 5? Nah. The best OT in the class? Probably not. And when you're a good but not elite prospect to begin with, you just don't have that far you can drop off to begin with. If he was an elite prospect at comes back at 90% of what he was, that's probably still an NFL starter. If he was a good prospect and comes back at 90%, it almost certainly isn't.
Then you have some questions as to Ohio State offensive linemen -- notably the fact that Paris Johnson, who was definitely a better pure prospect than Simmons, hasn't been what anyone hoped. Taylor Decker was quite some time ago and really that's the only successful OL to have come from Ohio State of late, is it not? Am I missing anyone?
There are just too many flags there. Maybe the board gets massacred and I'd take him anyway, but it seems really really unlikely. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
With that level or risk, him getting back to 'what he was before' has to mean a top 5 talent, IMO. That's where the risk is worth the reward.
Simmons is, IMO, a guy who wouldn't have clearly set himself apart from the Campbell or Membou in an OT draft that is pretty dang weak at the top. Even healthy, I'm not sure he's the top OT in the class.
"What he was" has to be INCREDIBLY valuable in order for me to be willing to look past the injury and be willing to take the risk. I just don't think he was THAT good. Top 15 -- sure.
But top 5? Nah. The best OT in the class? Probably not. And when you're a good but not elite prospect to begin with, you just don't have that far you can drop off to begin with. If he was an elite prospect at comes back at 90% of what he was, that's probably still an NFL starter. If he was a good prospect and comes back at 90%, it almost certainly isn't.
Then you have some questions as to Ohio State offensive linemen -- notably the fact that Paris Johnson, who was definitely a better pure prospect than Simmons, hasn't been what anyone hoped. Taylor Decker was quite some time ago and really that's the only successful OL to have come from Ohio State of late, is it not? Am I missing anyone?
There are just too many flags there. Maybe the board gets massacred and I'd take him anyway, but it seems really really unlikely.
Hadn't really considered the track record of Ohio State linemen of late.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
With that level or risk, him getting back to 'what he was before' has to mean a top 5 talent, IMO. That's where the risk is worth the reward.
Simmons is, IMO, a guy who wouldn't have clearly set himself apart from the Campbell or Membou in an OT draft that is pretty dang weak at the top. Even healthy, I'm not sure he's the top OT in the class.
"What he was" has to be INCREDIBLY valuable in order for me to be willing to look past the injury and be willing to take the risk. I just don't think he was THAT good. Top 15 -- sure.
But top 5? Nah. The best OT in the class? Probably not. And when you're a good but not elite prospect to begin with, you just don't have that far you can drop off to begin with. If he was an elite prospect at comes back at 90% of what he was, that's probably still an NFL starter. If he was a good prospect and comes back at 90%, it almost certainly isn't.
Then you have some questions as to Ohio State offensive linemen -- notably the fact that Paris Johnson, who was definitely a better pure prospect than Simmons, hasn't been what anyone hoped. Taylor Decker was quite some time ago and really that's the only successful OL to have come from Ohio State of late, is it not? Am I missing anyone?
There are just too many flags there. Maybe the board gets massacred and I'd take him anyway, but it seems really really unlikely.
Paris Johnson has been quite good. You're thinking of Petit-Friere who has sucked ass. Dawand Jones probably will too, at least if they have any considerations of putting him at LT instead of RT.
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Paris Johnson has been quite good. You're thinking of Petit-Friere who has sucked ass. Dawand Jones probably will too, at least if they have any considerations of putting him at LT instead of RT.
Decker was OSU duncan.
Nice. I don't know why I thought he was a Michigan kid. [Reply]