NFLPA has told the NFL that it wants to initiate a review of the concussion protocols in light of Tua Tagovailoa’s return to today’s game in Miami, per source.
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
There is an independent doctor already factored-in because of that exact concern as a check and balance.
Right.
Kelce was saying in his podcast that when he got his in the Titans game he was absolutely down in the locker room screaming and throwing shit because he wanted to go back in and couldn't. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2:
I hope they release the findings of the “independent physicians “ who cleared him mid-game last week and cleared him to play this week.
This is the thing. People slamming the Dolphins - justifiably - but what about the independent review process? Whether or not guys are cleared to play after potential concussions was supposed to be taken out of the team's hands. Whoever the independent reviewer was should be getting at least as much blame as the Dolphins' coaches. [Reply]
Kelce was saying in his podcast that when he got his in the Titans game he was absolutely down in the locker room screaming and throwing shit because he wanted to go back in and couldn't.
This is why I have to believe Tua passed all the protocols on Sunday to get back in the game.
And I don't buy into the narrative the league is deciding who gets to play based on rating etc...that's just nonsense. The NFL had to settle a massive massive lawsuit already they aren't setting themselves up for another. You would have to have way too many people involved to keep that kind of shit secret. Frankly I don't get why some people even watch the NFL with all the conspiracies they believe in.
There are a metric shit ton of bad games scheduled in prime time to act like Tua was cleared just to make it a better game is beyond stupid.
If the league was soooo worried about optics and matchups for prime time, no way in hell would Matt Ryan vs Russel Wilson be happening next Thursday. :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by JohnnyHammersticks:
This is the thing. People slamming the Dolphins - justifiably - but what about the independent review process? Whether or not guys are cleared to play after potential concussions was supposed to be taken out of the team's hands. Whoever the independent reviewer was should be getting at least as much blame as the Dolphins' coaches.
Im assuming Tua lied to the independent neurologist and the neurologist took it as "good enough for me".
I wonder if video review is part of the process. I have to wonder if the independent neurologist actually saw what happened to Tua on Sunday. It's hard to believe someone could see that and then go, "oh sure, that's not a concussion. I know that for SURE. Back spasms seem more likely".
You could see the dude's head bounce off the grass. His head was dangling when he sat up like it was about to fall off his neck.
FFS, he even did the little headshake thing like he was trying to shake it off before getting up.
Concussion seemed obvious and that was BEFORE the wobble legs. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
That is a really dumb fan base, lol.
We give each other so much shit for being reeruns here, but...take a trip around the league, look at 31 other message boards and come back here with a whole new appreciation for every reeruned one of us here on CP, for real tho. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Im assuming Tua lied to the independent neurologist and the neurologist took it as "good enough for me".
I wonder if video review is part of the process. I have to wonder if the independent neurologist actually saw what happened to Tua on Sunday. It's hard to believe someone could see that and then go, "oh sure, that's not a concussion. I know that for SURE. Back spasms seem more likely".
You could see the dude's head bounce off the grass. His head was dangling when he sat up like it was about to fall off his neck.
FFS, he even did the little headshake thing like he was trying to shake it off before getting up.
Concussion seemed obvious and that was BEFORE the wobble legs.
Originally Posted by Detoxing: Im assuming Tua lied to the independent neurologist and the neurologist took it as "good enough for me".
I wonder if video review is part of the process. I have to wonder if the independent neurologist actually saw what happened to Tua on Sunday. It's hard to believe someone could see that and then go, "oh sure, that's not a concussion. I know that for SURE. Back spasms seem more likely".
You could see the dude's head bounce off the grass. His head was dangling when he sat up like it was about to fall off his neck.
FFS, he even did the little headshake thing like he was trying to shake it off before getting up.
Concussion seemed obvious and that was BEFORE the wobble legs.
The neurologist isn't just asking him questions about how he feels. There is a panel of tests they do. Kelce even mentioned how tedious a process it was on his last podcast.
Its possible he passed the test even though he had some level of head trauma. [Reply]
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
The independent neurologist that's supposed to be the arbiter does not work for the team. That's the whole point of being "independent".
The protocol was either circumvented or it failed. My guess is that it's the former, we just don't know how they did it yet.
Hard for the neurologist if Tua said his back spasmed or something that caused him to be wobbly. If he had no symptoms and passed the baseline test, there was not much more the Independent neurologist could do. [Reply]
Originally Posted by IowaHawkeyeChief:
Hard for the neurologist if Tua said his back spasmed or something that caused him to be wobbly. If he had no symptoms and passed the baseline test, there was not much more the Independent neurologist could do.
Like Marcellus said, Tua doesn't really have a "say". It's not about what he tells them, it's about what they see.
If they examined him and said he was ready to play, they're just incompetent then. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Garcia Bronco:
There is an independent doctor already factored-in because of that exact concern as a check and balance.
So here is what people collectively are saying in essence
The team doctor is dirty/incompetent
The independent doctor is dirty/incompetent
The hospital last night is incompetent for letting him leave with the team yesterday
That's just not reasonable.
Yep, everyone on their couch knows more and knows better than actual freaking doctors who are at the scene...classic CP. [Reply]
Here is the NFL protocol. Seems to me everything that happened Sunday will be documented somewhere and should be a fairly easy investigation. :-)
Originally Posted by :
Game Day Concussion Diagnosis and Management
Definitions/Responsible Parties
Unaffiliated Neurotrauma Consultant (UNC)
A UNC shall be a physician who is impartial and independent from any Club, is board certified in neurology, emergency medicine, physical medicine and rehabilitation, or any primary care CAQ sports medicine certified physician or board eligible or board certified in neurological surgery, and has documented competence and experience in the treatment of acute head injuries. UNCs are appointed by the NFL Head, Neck and Spine Committee in consultation with the NFLPA Mackey-White Committee and approved by the NFL Chief Medical Officer and the NFLPA Medical Director, and have undergone formal UNC training provided by the NFL and NFLPA. At each game, each Club will be assigned a UNC to be present on its sideline who shall be: (i) focused on identifying signs or symptoms of concussion and mechanisms of injury that warrant concussion evaluation, (ii) working in consultation with the Head Team Physician or his/her designee to implement the concussion evaluation and management protocol (including the Locker Room Comprehensive Concussion Assessment Exam) during the games, and (iii) present to observe (and collaborate when appropriate with the team physician) the Sideline Concussion Assessment Exams performed by Club medical staff. The UNCs also will be available to assist in coordinating which physician will accompany a player who is transported to the EAP-designated trauma center for more advanced evaluation and treatment. The UNCs will work with the Club's medical staff and will assist in the diagnosis and care of the concussed player. The Club physician/UNC unit will be co-located for all concussion evaluations and management both on and off the field. The UNC may present his/her own questions or conduct additional testing and shall assist in the diagnosis and treatment of concussions. Regardless, the responsibility for the diagnosis of concussion and the decision to return a player to a game remains exclusively within the professional judgment of the Head Team Physician or his/her physician designee responsible for the diagnosis and treatment of concussion. A UNC will also be present for sideline evaluations for neuropraxia ("stingers" or "burners") and other potential spinal and peripheral nerve injuries.
Should the sideline UNC be unavailable to participate in the sideline evaluation (i.e., the sideline UNC is treating another player in the locker room or accompanying an injured player to the hospital in accordance with the EAP), the Club physician may request to conduct the assessment with the second sideline UNC who is present on the opposing team's sideline. In the event that the opposing team's sideline UNC is unavailable, the Visiting Team Medical Liaison (VTML; see section 1.d below) who has completed the formal NFL-NFLPA UNC training) may serve as a back-up.
A third UNC will be assigned to a stadium booth with access to multiple views of video (including the live broadcast feed and audio) and replay to aid in the recognition of injury (Booth UNC). This UNC will be co-located with the Booth ATC Spotter (see below). UNCs assigned to the booth are charged with monitoring all available video feeds and the network audio to identify players who may require additional medical evaluation. Prior to the start of the game, all UNCs will introduce themselves to the medical staffs for both teams during the Pregame Medical Team Meeting (see section 2.a below) to discuss protocol and confirm that all communication devices are operational.
When the Booth UNC observes a player who is clearly unstable or displays any other Potential Concussion Signs (defined in Section I.C. above) following a mechanism of injury (e.g., a hit to the head or neck), he/she and/or the Booth ATC Spotter will contact the Club physician and sideline UNC by radio to ensure that a concussionevaluation is undertakenon the sideline. The Club medical staff will then verify to the booth medical staff that the evaluation has been performed. The Booth UNC shall note the time of his initial contact with the Club medical staff and sideline UNC alerting them of the need for further evaluation and also the time of the communication from the Club medical staff and sideline UNC confirming that an evaluation has been performed. This information is to be conveyed in the Booth UNC report following the game. If the Booth UNC observes a player who he/she has flagged for medical evaluation return to the game prior to receiving the confirmation from the Club's medical staff that an evaluation was conducted, he/she shall notify the Booth ATC Spotter who shall call a Medical Time-Out (see below). For purposes of clarity, this is intended to serve as a redundant communication from the Booth ATC Spotter with the Club physician or sideline UNC to confirm that a concussion evaluation has been performed. If no such confirmation is provided, the Booth ATC Spotter is required to call a Medical Time-Out to assure the concussion evaluation occurs.
Booth UNCs shall file a report of their activities following each game for review by the Chairperson of the NFL Head, Neck and Spine Committee, NFL Chief Medical Officer and NFLPA Medical Director.
For the avoidance of doubt, the responsibility for the diagnosis of concussion and the decision to return a player to a game remain exclusively within the professional judgment of the Head Team Physician or the Club physician designated as responsible for the diagnosis and management of concussion.
Booth Certified Athletic Trainer Spotter ("Booth ATC Spotters")
A certified athletic trainer will be assigned to each Club and positioned in the stadium booth with access to multiple views of video and replay to aid in the recognition of injury ("Booth ATC Spotter"). Booth ATC Spotters are charged with monitoring the game, both live and via video feed, to identify players that may require additional medical evaluation. Prior to the start of the game, Booth ATC Spotters will introduce themselves to the medical staff for both Clubs and officials to discuss protocol and confirm that all communication devices are operational. The Booth ATC Spotters, UNCs, and the Club physician responsible for concussion diagnosis and management shall be connected by radio communication. The Booth ATC Spotters shall also be connected to the on-field game officials by radio communication. The Clubs' medical personnel may initiate communication with the spotter to clarify the manner of injury. The sideline medical staff will be able to review the game film on the sidelines to obtain information on particular plays involving possible injury.
When the Booth ATC Spotter observes a player who is clearly unstable, or displays any other Potential Concussion Signs (defined in Section I.C. above) following a mechanism of injury (e.g., a hit to the head or neck), he/she will contact the Club physician and sideline UNC by radio to ensure that a concussion evaluation is undertaken on the sideline. The Club medical staff will then verify to the Booth ATC Spotter that the evaluation has been performed. The Booth ATC Spotter shall note the time of his initial contact with the Club medical staff and sideline UNC alerting them of the need for further evaluation and also the time of the communication from the Club medical staff and sideline UNC confirming that an evaluation has been performed. This information is to be conveyed in the Booth ATC Spotter's and Booth UNC's report following the game. If the Booth ATC Spotter observes a player whom he has flagged for medical evaluation return to the game prior to receiving the confirmation from the Club's medical staff that an evaluation was conducted, the Booth ATC Spotter shall call a Medical Time-Out (see below). For purposes of clarity, this is intended to serve as a redundant communication from the Booth ATC Spotter with the Club physician or sideline UNC to confirm that a concussion evaluation has been performed.If no such confirmation is provided, the Booth ATC Spotter is required to call a Medical Time-Out to assure the concussion evaluation occurs.
Booth ATC Spotters shall file a report of their activity following each game for review by the Chairperson of the NFL Head, Neck and Spine Committee, NFL Chief Medical Officer and NFLPA Medical Director.
Visiting Team Medical Liaisons (VTMLs) are board-certified physicians licensed to practice medicine in the state in which the stadium is located and who work with the visiting team to provide medical care for its players, including access to leading medical centers for emergency care. As stated above (see 1.a), a VTML may serve as back-up UNCs if s/he has completed formal NFL-NFLPA UNC training.
Kelce was saying in his podcast that when he got his in the Titans game he was absolutely down in the locker room screaming and throwing shit because he wanted to go back in and couldn't.
Originally Posted by Marcellus:
The neurologist isn't just asking him questions about how he feels. There is a panel of tests they do. Kelce even mentioned how tedious a process it was on his last podcast.
Its possible he passed the test even though he had some level of head trauma.
And my recollection is that these are tailored to each player's respective baselines.
I think he probably DID pass the test. And I'd be surprised if the test wasn't properly administered.
I just think it MIGHT expose a small hole in the net. But the more you try to make this a 'judgment call' issue, the more you're going to open the door to criticism when someone gets pulled out by a judgment call during a playoff game or something.
The league should probably tread lightly here. They have made HUGE strides and I honestly think what they've put in place is sufficient. If the rules were followed, I don't think they should tinker with it too much. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Marcellus:
Here is the NFL protocol. Seems to me everything that happened Sunday will be documented somewhere and should be a fairly easy investigation. :-)
Originally Posted by : For the avoidance of doubt, the responsibility for the diagnosis of concussion and the decision to return a player to a game remain exclusively within the professional judgment of the Head Team Physician or the Club physician designated as responsible for the diagnosis and management of concussion.
