About to hit the 5000 post mark on the old thread, the first season 7 trailer today seems like the right time to start the final Game of Thones thread.
I'm going back to the original rules pre-2015. I don't think we need supervision or bannings. Just don't be a dick. Post anything you find online that hasn't aired yet inside of spoiler tags. That's pretty much it. I think we can all handle that...
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
has to be a reason? Taking out House Frey, avenging the Red Wedding and killing the Night King and his army of the dead isn’t enough reason for those episodes?
Perhaps not. I forgot about the Red Wedding. But she appears to be the Avenger in the family. [Reply]
Dany's madness is the direction I expect the books to go as well, but the lead up to her turn has to be laid out better.
In fact, when she executed Varys, I thought they were trying to show her as a reasonable and mature leader, as looking into his eyes and giving the order to Drogon is essentially her version of Ned's "swing the sword yourself". [Reply]
Originally Posted by Iconic:
That's easy, the NK? That's who he SHOULD have faced this season. In fact if you give Jon one meaningful 1v1 that's the one it should have been period. His entire arc, story, purpose was stopping the walkers. Yet instead some faceless bitch jumps from mid air to do it while we watch Jon yell at a ****ing dragon.
And if we are talking just this episode? Euron, Golden Company's commander or some shit? Just something so the dude has something to ****ing do. They could have at least given Jon Arya's part of saving the people of King's Landing and it would have been 100x more meaningful. This shit sucks.
But when you talk about things you're forcing just to make for compelling viewing, isn't Jon v. The NK exactly that?
Seriously, in what world does it make any sense at all for a dude that can raise a zombie army to lock swords with a trained swordsman? The only reasonable way to kill him was surprise and the person most equipped to deliver that surprise was very clearly Arya.
TNK turning and going 1v1 vs. Jon would've been grounds for complaint along the lines of anything that's happened thus far. It simply wouldn't have made a damn bit of sense. You don't have Eisenhower out there dueling with some random German champion during a lull in the fighting on D-Day... [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
But when you talk about things you're forcing just to make for compelling viewing, isn't Jon v. The NK exactly that?
Seriously, in what world does it make any sense at all for a dude that can raise a zombie army to lock swords with a trained swordsman? The only reasonable way to kill him was surprise and the person most equipped to deliver that surprise was very clearly Arya.
TNK turning and going 1v1 vs. Jon would've been grounds for complaint along the lines of anything that's happened thus far. It simply wouldn't have made a damn bit of sense. You don't have Eisenhower out there dueling with some random German champion during a lull in the fighting on D-Day...
By that logic he shouldn't have ever come into the godswood. [Reply]
Originally Posted by penchief:
In the end we all have different opinions that may or may not be equally valid. But regarding the criticisms of this show I don't believe your opinion is any more valid than those who appreciate the way the show is concluding. You don't have to like it but that doesn't make you smarter than everybody who does.
Originally Posted by MagicHef:
By that logic he shouldn't have ever come into the godswood.
But if you believe the narrative, his ultimate goal was in the Godswood; he was of the mind that killing the three eyed raven was central to everything he wanted to accomplish. Jon was simply an impediment to achieving his ultimate goal. There's a pretty significant distinction that's even more clear IF you believe the fan theory that perhaps the NK had taken stock of Jon and believed him to be the Azor Ahai (so he was intentionally dodging him to avoid having a prophecy fulfilled).
Now what he did there was still questionable, but he WAS surrounded by his lieutenants (as opposed to the potential conflict with Jon outside the gates), and had a seemingly helpless opponent he was able to dispatch after the rest of his crew had done the heavy lifting of killing off the Iron Born.
Again, using my strained Eisenhower narrative, it would be like if Ike found Hitler in a grove and strolled up to him with a pistol in hand while surrounded by a dozen of his top fighting men. Would it have been advisable? Well...no. But it would've been more sensible than fighting some random schmoe on the beach. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
But if you believe the narrative, his ultimate goal was in the Godswood; he was of the mind that killing the three eyed raven was central to everything he wanted to accomplish. Jon was simply an impediment to achieving his ultimate goal. There's a pretty significant distinction that's even more clear IF you believe the fan theory that perhaps the NK had taken stock of Jon and believed him to be the Azor Ahai (so he was intentionally dodging him to avoid having a prophecy fulfilled).
Now what he did there was still questionable, but he WAS surrounded by his lieutenants (as opposed to the potential conflict with Jon outside the gates), and had a seemingly helpless opponent he was able to dispatch after the rest of his crew had done the heavy lifting of killing off the Iron Born.
Again, using my strained Eisenhower narrative, it would be like if Ike found Hitler in a grove and strolled up to him with a pistol in hand while surrounded by a dozen of his top fighting men. Would it have been advisable? Well...no. But it would've been more sensible than fighting some random schmoe on the beach.
Yeah, I agree that Jon used to be really important to the Long Night story, but apparently isn't anymore. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chiefspants:
I think that's what happens when the fanbase starts creating narratives of their own. Something similar happened with S1 of True Detective, where fans got so obsessed with the mythos and theorized beyond what the show-runners ever intended - and then were livid when they didn't see their theorized outcomes.
This is true of so many shows/series/trilogies, etc. etc.
1) Story becomes insanely popular
2) Episodes come slower than fan theories
3) Conclusion doesn't match millions of different fan theories
4) Fans feel like the show creators raped their childhood [Reply]
Jon's best fights were against the wildlings (maybe the Thenns?). But mostly we got to see a ton of him just kicking ass in melee combat and I feel like that's the best demonstration of just how capable he is. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MagicHef:
Yeah, I agree that Jon used to be really important to the Long Night story, but apparently isn't anymore.
The interesting wrinkle is the fan theory, though. And it's a reasonable one.
What if TNK thought he was just as critical as we did? Was he critically important precisely because TNK let his guard down thinking the prophecy had been neutralized? Did he simply think the battle was won and that's why he sauntered into the Godswood?
By that viewing, Jon was huge even if it was via a misunderstanding from TNK. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Jon's best fights were against the wildlings (maybe the Thenns?). But mostly we got to see a ton of him just kicking ass in melee combat and I feel like that's the best demonstration of just how capable he is.
agreed. I also agree that Jon v TNK would have resulted in thousands of pages of how fan-servicey it was. When these big blockbuster stories reach this level, I don't think it's possible to create a "non-controversial" conclusion. Everyone has their own ideas on how it should have gone down, and anything else is just stupid.
But I guess I do the same thing to my daughter as she is watching an episode of the Bachelor - I bash the shit out of that crap. "Seriously, she thinks she's special to him! Bullshit.":-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by Iconic:
Episode was ****ing trash. Probably the first episode I actually felt like fast forwarding through. So much filler shit of retarded people dying and burning. Yeah I get it, the bitch has gone psycho and is burning people up, can we move on? And if you're going to really show that stuff at least do it in a way in which people might give a ****.
The cherry on top was Arya waking up to the autistic horse. The **** was that lmao? It literally looked like some ironic SNL skit at the end.
Originally Posted by temper11:
agreed. I also agree that Jon v TNK would have resulted in thousands of pages of how fan-servicey it was. When these big blockbuster stories reach this level, I don't think it's possible to create a "non-controversial" conclusion. Everyone has their own ideas on how it should have gone down, and anything else is just stupid.
But I guess I do the same thing to my daughter as she is watching an episode of the Bachelor - I bash the shit out of that crap. "Seriously, she thinks she's special to him! Bullshit.":-)
The Arya vs NK instead of Jon vs NK argument is just a symptom that the show has gotten so big in terms of a following that you're not gonna find consensus on which choice was the correct one. [Reply]
