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View Poll Results: Who would you like to see run, and hopefully win, the 2024 election?
Mike Pompeo 0 0%
Greg Abbott 0 0%
Chris Christie 2 3.57%
Ted Cruz 2 3.57%
Tim Scott 2 3.57%
Nikki Haley 2 3.57%
Ron DeSantis 32 57.14%
The Donald 10 17.86%
Other 6 10.71%
Voters: 56. You may not vote on this poll
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Patteeu Memorial Political Forum>GOPCP'ers - Who do you *WANT* to see run for POTUS in 2024?
Mephistopheles Janx 10:51 AM 11-29-2021
Pretty straightforward. If you wish to qualify who you would chose and why I would be interested in reading it. I'd also be curious as to whom you might think would be the ideal running mate.
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BucEyedPea 10:56 PM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
Wouldn't Mitt Romney be a great choice for true conservatives? What's not to like policy-wise?
:-) Pitt loves a RINO because they're not really a conservative but a prog in Republican clothing. :-)
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Taco John 11:15 PM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
Wouldn't Mitt Romney be a great choice for true conservatives? What's not to like policy-wise?

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Taco John 11:22 PM 11-29-2021
Romney is conservative like Hillary Clinton is conservative. That question is an insult.
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Taco John 11:35 PM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by Hammock Parties:
I actually think now, Trump losing is the best thing that could have happened to this country.

The libs are showing how terrible they are at running the country. But they are not able to enact truly drastic measures we can't come back from, thanks to the moderates in the Senate.

The libs have exposed themselves, and the country sees it. So the Pubes will win mid-terms, and Trump comes back (you remember how strong his economy was) to a red House and Senate, and now Trump Unchained, with nothing to lose, really starts to wipe the floor with the commies.

This country isn't dumb enough to vote for 82-year old Joe Biden. But they are smart enough to let Trump finish what he started. And thanks to Biden and the far left moonbats, it will be a huge red wave that keeps roaring long after he leaves office.
Someone who sees the bigger picture...
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Over Yonder 04:40 AM 11-30-2021
I also am not GOP but I will offer up my wishes anyways

1. Rand Paul
2. Ted Cruz
3. Mike Lee

The problem is 1 and 3 have zero chance at winning and #2 doesn't have much chance. But, if they don't do away with mail in voting, this is all a waste of time anyways. The establishment will never let a real conservative win. They might let a RINO like Romney win, but not a real conservative.
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BigBeauford 08:27 AM 11-30-2021
Originally Posted by NinerDoug:
The idea of loyalty to a set of beliefs doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I don't believe in safe spaces, cancel culture, or making race the number one issue in America.

Does that mean I'm not "loyal" to Liberalism? When loyalty to a set of beliefs is what is required, that set of beliefs has become religion.
Ideology is cancer. Don't care if it's politics, religion, corporations, or even a chicken sandwich. Probably a result in the decline of organized religion, but that's just swapping one set for the other
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Donger 08:46 AM 11-30-2021
Originally Posted by Taco John:
Romney is conservative like Hillary Clinton is conservative. That question is an insult.
Because he supported government-run healthcare when he was Governor of MA?
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listopencil 09:06 AM 11-30-2021
Originally Posted by NinerDoug:
The idea of loyalty to a set of beliefs doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I don't believe in safe spaces, cancel culture, or making race the number one issue in America.

Does that mean I'm not "loyal" to Liberalism? When loyalty to a set of beliefs is what is required, that set of beliefs has become religion.
I would say that what you have described is more the modern form of 'progressivism' than any form of liberalism. I see you as a liberal rather than a progressive. And I'm not using 'liberal' as a pejorative here.
[Reply]
Baby Lee 09:53 AM 11-30-2021
Originally Posted by NinerDoug:
The idea of loyalty to a set of beliefs doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I don't believe in safe spaces, cancel culture, or making race the number one issue in America.

Does that mean I'm not "loyal" to Liberalism? When loyalty to a set of beliefs is what is required, that set of beliefs has become religion.
Originally Posted by BigBeauford:
Ideology is cancer. Don't care if it's politics, religion, corporations, or even a chicken sandwich. Probably a result in the decline of organized religion, but that's just swapping one set for the other
I wholeheartedly disagree, . . UNEXAMINED ideology is a cancer. But so is any passionate position that isn't thought through.

What is your alternative to ideology? Tabula Rasa assessment of every event that occurs? Well then, where do you get the framework for assessment.

It seems to me, and feel free to argue otherwise, that there are three primary drivers for positions on anything, ideas, emotions and/or interpersonal synchrony/conflict [which is usually a specific subset of emotion].

The keys, though, for making ideology credible and viable is; thinking your ideology out for yourself and not outsourcing it to others, and sticking to the principles regardless of emotion or interpersonal feeling.

I really am curious what you would advocate as a superior alternative to ideology, if anything. And if you offer no alternative to ideology, do you have the ideology that nothing matters and the fortitude to accept the consequence when something DOES matter to you that you have no tools to persuade others that it should matter to them?

Perhaps I have an outlier conception of ideology, but for me it ideally represents, at it's base, the process of thinking about the worth of ideas.
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lawrenceRaider 10:29 AM 11-30-2021
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
I wholeheartedly disagree, . . UNEXAMINED ideology is a cancer. But so is any passionate position that isn't thought through.

What is your alternative to ideology? Tabula Rasa assessment of every event that occurs? Well then, where do you get the framework for assessment.

It seems to me, and feel free to argue otherwise, that there are three primary drivers for positions on anything, ideas, emotions and/or interpersonal synchrony/conflict [which is usually a specific subset of emotion].

The keys, though, for making ideology credible and viable is; thinking your ideology out for yourself and not outsourcing it to others, and sticking to the principles regardless of emotion or interpersonal feeling.

I really am curious what you would advocate as a superior alternative to ideology, if anything. And if you offer no alternative to ideology, do you have the ideology that nothing matters and the fortitude to accept the consequence when something DOES matter to you that you have no tools to persuade others that it should matter to them?

Perhaps I have an outlier conception of ideology, but for me it ideally represents, at it's base, the process of thinking about the worth of ideas.
Ideology isn't introspective or typically thought of as open to logical dissection. It is a set of beliefs that isn't open to new data or experiences. Things are the way you see them and nothing will ever change that.

See all the people who insist on sticking with the first news story they see on a topic. They see a headline saying Omnicron is going to result in new lockdowns, and away they go with it. Irregardless of any new reports that say it is mostly a milder form of COVID or reports that say we don't know enough yet to have any real opinion on it.

Same goes for those who still hold to the Muh Russia delusion.
[Reply]
BigBeauford 10:33 AM 11-30-2021
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
I wholeheartedly disagree, . . UNEXAMINED ideology is a cancer. But so is any passionate position that isn't thought through.

What is your alternative to ideology? Tabula Rasa assessment of every event that occurs? Well then, where do you get the framework for assessment.

It seems to me, and feel free to argue otherwise, that there are three primary drivers for positions on anything, ideas, emotions and/or interpersonal synchrony/conflict [which is usually a specific subset of emotion].

The keys, though, for making ideology credible and viable is; thinking your ideology out for yourself and not outsourcing it to others, and sticking to the principles regardless of emotion or interpersonal feeling.

I really am curious what you would advocate as a superior alternative to ideology, if anything. And if you offer no alternative to ideology, do you have the ideology that nothing matters and the fortitude to accept the consequence when something DOES matter to you that you have no tools to persuade others that it should matter to them?

Perhaps I have an outlier conception of ideology, but for me it ideally represents, at it's base, the process of thinking about the worth of ideas.
I think every idea should be examined through your own set of values and not someone else's. For example,, when someone says "guns are bad", my first thought isn't "I'm a conservative, we like guns". No, my thoughts are with individuals living I'm tyranny because they cannot own guns.

The antithesis to ideology is logic. Every topic should be examined on the basis of first, is this idea good for Me? Then, is it good for my surroundings? I think an ideology exists because enough people find value in those ideas. Where it goes wrong is when these supporters fail to hold their standard bearers accountable. Donald Trump broke my second "rule". His methods were fine for me, but made my environment less stable.

My personal ideology can be distilled down to a couple of things: obey the golden rule, and leave me alone. Neither party can give me that on any level, and I am immediately dissatisfied with the ruling party within months. I can't convince anyone to live this way, I've tried. The moment one side of the political spectrum takes their foot off the oppositions neck is when the opposition will bounce up and stab the other in the back. It's how we operate and why I wish ranked choice was a thing.
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Marcellus 10:38 AM 11-30-2021
Originally Posted by Pitt Gorilla:
Wouldn't Mitt Romney be a great choice for true conservatives? What's not to like policy-wise?
:-)
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Baby Lee 10:40 AM 11-30-2021
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider:
Ideology isn't introspective or typically thought of as open to logical dissection. It is a set of beliefs that isn't open to new data or experiences. Things are the way you see them and nothing will ever change that.

See all the people who insist on sticking with the first news story they see on a topic. They see a headline saying Omnicron is going to result in new lockdowns, and away they go with it. Irregardless of any new reports that say it is mostly a milder form of COVID or reports that say we don't know enough yet to have any real opinion on it.

Same goes for those who still hold to the Muh Russia delusion.
I think there are differing notions when the issue of ideology comes up. I assess it etymologically, where your notion of right and wrong, good and bad, are based on the IDEAS underlying them.

Others have a notion of ideology as a blueprint disseminated and followed unthinkingly. I guess somewhere down the food chain, someone came up with those ideas.

Perhaps a different cleavage in perspectives, or at least the terminology, is appropriate. Do you comport yourself by blueprints gleaned from others, or from personal introspectiion and thought leading to productive ideas [principles?] for you?

Blueprint versus Principle. . . Another divide unearthed? ;


EDIT - should add, likely driving my particular conception of ideology as founding principles in ideas is in response to interpersonal/tribal model of principle adoption, . . . ie, I don't support guns because rednecks like them. Or I don't like soccer because |Zach| loves soccer. Or I support BLM because black people seem to be sad at the moment.
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Baby Lee 10:42 AM 11-30-2021
Another ideological cleavage is proactive versus reactive. Do you decide what is right first, then comport yourself advocating right? Or do you define yourself in terms of wrong and comport yourself in reaction to wrongs you see?
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BigBeauford 11:05 AM 11-30-2021
As busy as life can be, I can see the merits of a blueprint way of expediting your process for these things. I prefer living my life in a very fungible manner. Things change all of the time, and approving of things without thinking about them seems like madness to me. I'd prefer if people at a minimum thought about stuff in a LEAN Six Sigma manner personally.
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