Originally Posted by staylor26:
If he plays like this for the rest of the season and postseason and we win the SB, it’s going to be really hard to argue that the trade wasn’t worth it in the end.
Yeah he's doing great lately. Hope he keeps it up. [Reply]
Definitely re-sign Ingram. Not sure Frank will let them re-sign him cheaper. I'm fine if he leaves if he doesn't want a discount. He can't stay healthy [Reply]
Originally Posted by smithandrew051:
Clark looks like he is shot out of a cannon around the edge lately. Incredible timing on the snap count with real burst.
That sack that was called off was a thing of beauty.
Defensive End "camps" will have that move on repeat. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Sure-Oz:
Definitely re-sign Ingram. Not sure Frank will let them re-sign him cheaper. I'm fine if he leaves if he doesn't want a discount. He can't stay healthy
That's my other concern with re-signing him.
For roughly half of his deal, he has not been worth it, and now he's in legal trouble. On top of that, he misses games every single year.
His cap hit in 2022 is $26.3m. Whatever happens, a cut or a restructuring of any kind, that number must come down. [Reply]
From a value standpoint the Clark deal was always bad.
But you can get away from value when you are as close to winning a Super Bowl as KC was when we signed him.
Chris Jones, Melvin Ingram, and Frank Clark is too much for most teams to handle and could win us another Championship along with what else we have. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
From a value standpoint the Clark deal was always bad.
But you can get away from value when you are as close to winning a Super Bowl as KC was when we signed him.
Chris Jones, Melvin Ingram, and Frank Clark is too much for most teams to handle and could win us another Championship along with what else we have.
I do think a tertiary passrusher has unlocked a ton of potential here.
Even if we keep all three this offseason, I'd still like us to draft a DE very high, and even spend a 2nd day pick on DT as well.
Keep that DL stocked. This season proves that a great DL with Mathieu running the back seven and two young LBs filling lanes and eating up the flats makes this defense extremely hard to penetrate.
I really do think this is a Top 5 defense in the NFL right now. Clark is a very real part of that. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I do think a tertiary passrusher has unlocked a ton of potential here.
Even if we keep all three this offseason, I'd still like us to draft a DE very high, and even spend a 2nd day pick on DT as well.
Keep that DL stocked. This season proves that a great DL with Mathieu running the back seven and two young LBs filling lanes and eating up the flats makes this defense extremely hard to penetrate.
I really do think this is a Top 5 defense in the NFL right now. Clark is a very real part of that.
The most important part of the off-season is rebuilding our offensive weapons after Hill, Kelce.
After that, it would be finding 2-3 veterans like Ingram that are talented, will come at a good price, and want to chase rings.
1st round is always a good place for a talented DE but the drawback is that they can take a year or two longer to hit than some other positions and our window is now.
Originally Posted by staylor26:
If he plays like this for the rest of the season and postseason and we win the SB, it’s going to be really hard to argue that the trade wasn’t worth it in the end.
There will always be people on the other side, but if we win the upcoming Super Bowl, who gives a shit? Lol.
I mean, that would mean three straight Super Bowls during the length of the contract and winning 2 out of 3. That would be a dream. You can't reasonably ask for anything more. [Reply]
It might be time to revisit what I think all of us had as the slam-dunk move of this coming offseason, which is releasing Frank Clark.
I'm still in favor of it at this point, but it's now like 55/45 instead of the 100/0 it was after September.
Anybody think we should explore extending him to lower his 2022 cap hit, rather than straight up releasing him?
I think it's at least worth a conversation.
Unless the Chiefs know something we don't (very possible) he needs to be an automatic cut. Or trade or whatever gets that money off the books as efficiently as possible.
The problem is we haven't seen him have sustained success over the course of an entire season, and he's spent more than half of his time being bad instead of being badass.
If the Chiefs knew the reason for that and were confident they could correct that out of him, then I could see the argument being made, but at this point all we the fans think we know that Clark has Crohn's Disease. We think, that is.
Like, I feel for him and all, but again... it's a business, and if we're going to pay him truckloads of money, we need him the entire season. Not just when the rest of the defense is playing well.
Too many variables, and the cap space is too valuable right now. He has to go. [Reply]
Experience within Spags' system is key to the success of the defense. Especially on the DL and at LB. At all three levels, really, but we've proven (with a SB victory) that Spags doesn't need elite or even top-tier CBs to put a top-10 defense on the field. As long as the DL can get pressure and play disciplined football vs. the rush, and the LBs and Ss can cover as wll as play the run, the CBs just have to be competent.
And our DEs aren't just pass-rushers. They are required to play the run, defend the screen game, even drop into coverage at times, as well as rush the passer. Of the DEs we do have, Clark is far and away the most well-rounded (Swiss Army knife), and it's not even close.
If we get rid of Clark, who replaces him? Certainly no one currently on the roster not named Melvin Ingram. Can't assume at this point that Melvin will be re-signed in the off-season; he could be a one-and-done guy like Ogbah. Especially since he's playing better than Ogbah ever did when he was here. Ingram will command a big paycheck if he chooses to go that route. Also, the reality is that Melvin isn't really a DE. He's a LB that sometimes is asked to play EDGE. Not sure if he can be a full-time DE.
If Clark goes, regardless of who we replace him with, that lack of experience in the system and lack of football IQ will be exposed. Not necessarily a death knell, but it will be a real weakness until whoever fills his spot figures out how to play to the same level. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Going to say this one last time.
Experience within Spags' system is key to the success of the defense. Especially on the DL and at LB. At all three levels, really, but we've proven (with a SB victory) that Spags doesn't need elite or even top-tier CBs to put a top-10 defense on the field. As long as the DL can get pressure and play disciplined football vs. the rush, and the LBs and Ss can cover as wll as play the run, the CBs just have to be competent.
And our DEs aren't just pass-rushers. They are required to play the run, defend the screen game, even drop into coverage at times, as well as rush the passer. Of the DEs we do have, Clark is far and away the most well-rounded (Swiss Army knife), and it's not even close.
If we get rid of Clark, who replaces him? Certainly no one currently on the roster not named Melvin Ingram. Can't assume at this point that Melvin will be re-signed in the off-season; he could be a one-and-done guy like Ogbah. Especially since he's playing better than Ogbah ever did when he was here. Ingram will command a big paycheck if he chooses to go that route. Also, the reality is that Melvin isn't really a DE. He's a LB that sometimes is asked to play EDGE. Not sure if he can be a full-time DE.
If Clark goes, regardless of who we replace him with, that lack of experience in the system and lack of football IQ will be exposed. Not necessarily a death knell, but it will be a real weakness until whoever fills his spot figures out how to play to the same level.
To be fair it feels like every year the entire defence takes half a season to work things out. It's never felt like Clark clicks into gear any quicker than the new guys, and in fact guys like Sneed and Thornhill and even Gay looked pretty good in their rookie years (I get you're saying this is mainly at DL). I just don't think we can devote this sort of money to him. At some point we're going to have to take a swing in the earlier rounds of the draft and/or see if we can bring a more consistent veteran in, imo. Could that hurt in the short term? Perhaps. But it feels like it gives us a better chance than holding on to someone this up and down.
I also definitely think Ingram is a DE not a LB. His pash rush is excellent, his coverage is horrible. He's undersized but I'm not sure it matters. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Going to say this one last time.
Experience within Spags' system is key to the success of the defense. Especially on the DL and at LB. At all three levels, really, but we've proven (with a SB victory) that Spags doesn't need elite or even top-tier CBs to put a top-10 defense on the field. As long as the DL can get pressure and play disciplined football vs. the rush, and the LBs and Ss can cover as wll as play the run, the CBs just have to be competent.
And our DEs aren't just pass-rushers. They are required to play the run, defend the screen game, even drop into coverage at times, as well as rush the passer. Of the DEs we do have, Clark is far and away the most well-rounded (Swiss Army knife), and it's not even close.
If we get rid of Clark, who replaces him? Certainly no one currently on the roster not named Melvin Ingram. Can't assume at this point that Melvin will be re-signed in the off-season; he could be a one-and-done guy like Ogbah. Especially since he's playing better than Ogbah ever did when he was here. Ingram will command a big paycheck if he chooses to go that route. Also, the reality is that Melvin isn't really a DE. He's a LB that sometimes is asked to play EDGE. Not sure if he can be a full-time DE.
If Clark goes, regardless of who we replace him with, that lack of experience in the system and lack of football IQ will be exposed. Not necessarily a death knell, but it will be a real weakness until whoever fills his spot figures out how to play to the same level.
We're going to have to replace Honey Badger, Clark, or some other vet on this defense with somebody cheap and/or young next season. It's unavoidable.
We have to buckle down and accept the short-term lumps that come with trying to develop young players while they are thrust into important starting roles.
The defense will probably take a step back next season. [Reply]