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Lenny "The Cool" Lounge>Frank Clark fucking sucks
RealSNR 02:33 PM 09-15-2019
Guy has done NOTHING in two games. Barely any pressures to speak of against trash OTs.

Yeah, I'm in bitchy gameday mode. Don't care. I'm tired of paying out the ass for defensive players who don't make plays.

At least Justin Houston could dominate against bad teams after we paid him.
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-King- 02:29 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by staylor26:
:-)

Yea that’s when we’re talking about their grades/rankings. Nobody said they’re incapable of simply counting pressures.
Pressures are also subjective. That's why they and PFR and ESPN have different pressure statistics. So yes even with pressures you're still at the mercy of PFF's graders.
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dlphg9 02:30 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
:-)
The ole CP cop out emoji.
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DJ's left nut 02:31 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
That's because he's doing his job.
C'mon.

If this is 'his job' then it's Brett Veach that sucks at his and not Frank Clark.

No, this is nothing close to the job you give someone $20 million/season to perform.

It's truly okay to look at how he's performed with a critical eye, gents. I mean FFS, people on Twitter saying "Look at him fight through a double team..." when we sent 3 rushers. No, that's not a double team, the G literally didn't have anything to do so he peeled back. EVERYONE does that. We rushed three, Jackson had 8 seconds in the pocket. Clark didn't just take a knee at any point - SUPERSTAR!!!

For the 3rd straight week he was no better than the 4th best DL on this team. No, he's not 'doing his job' right now. Jones and Okafor are doing it every week. Ogbah has been doing it quite a bit as well. But it is not 'the job' of a $20 million defensive end to be a complementary player who sometimes looks almost as good as everyone else on the line with him.

Clark's just been 'meh' and had so many people not desperately wanted this trade to be amazing already, they wouldn't be setting the bar so damn low for the guy. It really is amazing to me how people can watch how he's played and say "yeah, that's fine..."

Sure it is - if you traded Eric Murray for him. Or if you gave him the deal you gave Okafor.

None of those things happened to get Frank Clark and no, his play to this point has not been remotely acceptable for someone who the Chiefs paid so dearly to put on the field. Call that an indictment on Clark or Veach (or even say it's incomplete to this point) if you want, but it has NOT been an acceptable level of performance.

And to continue trying to polish that turd is just bizarre to me. Why the hell is this guy getting so much latitude from a board that has NEVER been this forgiving for draft picks or FA acquisitions. Suddenly we use draft picks AND pay what amounts to a huge FA contract and everyone wants to treat this dude with kid gloves.
[Reply]
kgrund 02:31 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
Should have said sometime tomorrow,got work to do. Also it doesn't matter what anyone says it's a god damn Frank Clark circle jerk in here right now. I'm going to go with Bill Maas' opinion over any of you guys. He says hes not getting it done and says that he's not getting doubled teamed. A "terror"? Lmao, show me one god damn clip of him being a terror.
Billy Bob also went on to say that as far as judging him as a bust, it is WAY to early in the ballgame to say.
[Reply]
-King- 02:33 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
We had two 2nd round picks and both of them are contributing as starters right now.

The 1st round pick they gave up for Clark wasn't going to "fix the defense" anymore than trading it might.
How do you know this? And we also traded the 2020 second round pick.

We traded a 2019 first round pick and a 2020 second round pick for Clark and gave him a huge contract. Seahawks traded a 2020 3rd round pick and some scrub players for Clowney on a franchise deal. At this point, who do you think is ahead on their trade?
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htismaqe 02:34 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by dlphg9:
The ole CP cop out emoji.
You already copped out by playing the "Bill Maas knows more about football than you" card.

I mean he played. And he snorted a lot of coke. So yeah, I'm sure he knows more about football than most people, kind of like John Elway.

Why wouldn't I laugh at you? You're not willing to listen to reason so there's no point in actually trying to have a debate with you.
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htismaqe 02:37 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
C'mon.

If this is 'his job' then it's Brett Veach that sucks at his and not Frank Clark.

No, this is nothing close to the job you give someone $20 million/season to perform.

It's truly okay to look at how he's performed with a critical eye, gents. I mean FFS, people on Twitter saying "Look at him fight through a double team..." when we sent 3 rushers. No, that's not a double team, the G literally didn't have anything to do so he peeled back. EVERYONE does that. We rushed three, Jackson had 8 seconds in the pocket. Clark didn't just take a knee at any point - SUPERSTAR!!!

For the 3rd straight week he was no better than the 4th best DL on this team. No, he's not 'doing his job' right now. Jones and Okafor are doing it every week. Ogbah has been doing it quite a bit as well. But it is not 'the job' of a $20 million defensive end to be a complementary player who sometimes looks almost as good as everyone else on the line with him.

Clark's just been 'meh' and had so many people not desperately wanted this trade to be amazing already, they wouldn't be setting the bar so damn low for the guy. It really is amazing to me how people can watch how he's played and say "yeah, that's fine..."

Sure it is - if you traded Eric Murray for him. Or if you gave him the deal you gave Okafor.

None of those things happened to get Frank Clark and no, his play to this point has not been remotely acceptable for someone who the Chiefs paid so dearly to put on the field. Call that an indictment on Clark or Veach (or even say it's incomplete to this point) if you want, but it has NOT been an acceptable level of performance.

And to continue trying to polish that turd is just bizarre to me. Why the hell is this guy getting so much latitude from a board that has NEVER been this forgiving for draft picks or FA acquisitions. Suddenly we use draft picks AND pay what amounts to a huge FA contract and everyone wants to treat this dude with kid gloves.
The Baltimore offense looked like it was designed to RPO to the right, away from the defensive right side. Several people, including me, sitting in our area saw a Baltimore offense designed to run AWAY from Frank Clark. That's the definition of having an impact on a game.
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Beef Supreme 02:38 PM 09-23-2019
He hasn't been bad, but we paid for a game wrecker. He hasn't been that, or anywhere close to that.
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DJ's left nut 02:38 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by CasselGotPeedOn:
If you're going to lambaste Veach for Frank Clark, then you have to give him a ridiculous amount of credit for getting Ogbah for Eric fucking Murray.
Who isn't?

And I don't have any way to tally this, but it seemed to me that starting in the 2nd quarter, Spags was really trying to move Clark around to free him up. Stanley was fucking wrecking him so I think Spags was hoping to jump-start him by moving him over to the left side to face Brown.

And even with Ogbah drawing the tougher opponent (Stanley is really good), he looked great out there.

I think Veach is getting plenty of credit for the Ogbah trade - and he deserves every bit of it. I think he's getting some credit for Okafor as well.

But again, all of this can be said while also being critical of other decisions. Being critical of Frank Clark is more than fair to this point in the season. He has not played well at all.
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htismaqe 02:40 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by -King-:
How do you know this? And we also traded the 2020 second round pick.

We traded a 2019 first round pick and a 2020 second round pick for Clark and gave him a huge contract. Seahawks traded a 2020 3rd round pick and some scrub players for Clowney on a franchise deal. At this point, who do you think is ahead on their trade?
Which team lost at home yesterday to Teddy Bridgewater?

Of course you'd love to get better value but at the end of the day, the end results are all that matters. You're picking nits. I guess it's a testament to how good this team really is that people have to resort to this to generate a discussion.
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htismaqe 02:41 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Who isn't?

And I don't have any way to tally this, but it seemed to me that starting in the 2nd quarter, Spags was really trying to move Clark around to free him up. Stanley was fucking wrecking him so I think Spags was hoping to jump-start him by moving him over to the left side to face Brown.

And even with Ogbah drawing the tougher opponent (Stanley is really good), he looked great out there.

I think Veach is getting plenty of credit for the Ogbah trade - and he deserves every bit of it. I think he's getting some credit for Okafor as well.

But again, all of this can be said while also being critical of other decisions. Being critical of Frank Clark is more than fair to this point in the season. He has not played well at all.
It's one thing to be critical. The title of this thread is "Frank Clark fucking sucks". That's not critical, it's flat out stupid.
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DJ's left nut 02:42 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
The Baltimore offense looked like it was designed to RPO to the right, away from the defensive right side. Several people, including me, sitting in our area saw a Baltimore offense designed to run AWAY from Frank Clark. That's the definition of having an impact on a game.
Then you must not have noticed how Clark was being stationed to the left side of the line a LOT in the later stages of the game.

They were running traps up the middle and blowing Williams out of the hole while using Jones aggression against him. It's smart football but it was hardly 'running away from Frank Clark...'

Again, you're talking about an impact that's fine for a guy that costs half of what Frank Clark cost. But if you're saying "Man, look at the impact the guy had on run defense" when we gave up 200 yards rushing at 6 yards a clip...well I think you're doing something wrong.

No, he hasn't meaningfully impacted this defense. He's played roughly at a starters level but that's it. Not even a good starters level.

You cannot really think that this is what he was brought here to be. A glorified Mike Devito? I cannot for the life of me understand why some people are trying so hard to act like he's playing well right now. He just fucking isn't. He's getting handled out there and it's happening virtually every play.
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-King- 02:45 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Which team lost at home yesterday to Teddy Bridgewater?

Of course you'd love to get better value but at the end of the day, the end results are all that matters. You're picking nits. I guess it's a testament to how good this team really is that people have to resort to this to generate a discussion.
I'm sorely talking about Clark vs Clowney. The fact that the Seahawks lost yesterday has no bearing on that.

And it's not nitpicking to say that a player with this much capital invested in him should be better.
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DJ's left nut 02:45 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
It's one thing to be critical. The title of this thread is "Frank Clark fucking sucks". That's not critical, it's flat out stupid.
Frank Clark has played like someone who should've cost a 4th round pick and/or maybe cost 1/3 of what we're paying for him in FA.

Would that make you feel better? Because that's accurate.

You want to get bent out of shape over thread titles, well that's your prerogative. But the bottom line is that we're not getting anything close to a reasonable ROI on this guy and we already have folks like Clay saying "Well if he gets 10 sacks...."

Oh for fuck's sake, now we've moved the bar down to 10 sacks and solid run D? And folks, that's all his run D has been - solid. He hasn't been destroying worlds there either. But now 10 sacks and solid run D is acceptable for the 5th highest paid defender in football who also cost us a shitload of draft capital?

Stop lowering the bar for this guy. He isn't playing well. At all. And unless he does, the ceiling for this defense will remain 'meh'... He was the centerpiece of the defensive rebuild and he absolutely has to start playing like it.
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htismaqe 02:47 PM 09-23-2019
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
You cannot really think that this is what he was brought here to be. A glorified Mike Devito? I cannot for the life of me understand why some people are trying so hard to act like he's playing well right now. He just fucking isn't. He's getting handled out there and it's happening virtually every play.
Do I think this is what he was brought here to be?

No.

Do I think the entire defense is new? Yes.

Again, look at the title of the thread and the hyperbole that started it all. It's pretty easy to see why this is an argument and it has nothing to do with the people defending him.
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