Originally Posted by Sassy Squatch: :-) It's always a blast to click on regurgitated Barry tweets and immediately see him getting smacked around in the replies
It's my favorite thing to do when KCC posts a Barry tweet. I rarely even point them out because I just get lost in the comments for minutes. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
No, Sandy Koufax wasn't the greatest pitcher of all time. He also isn't in the same stratosphere as Michael Jordan. And if you're the one that's going to attempt to argue peak (which you appear to have backed quickly away from), I'm not sure what point you're even trying to make here.
See posts above. The point was never to argue peak (which is a separate discussion entirely). The point was to argue that peak is all MJ has got (just like Koufax).
And if that's all he's got, he's no GOAT. BOAT? Maybe. But GOAT? Not compared to a guy who has played 21 years of pro basketball now at a top 5-10 level for its entirety (with the majority of it spent as the best player in the NBA). [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
See posts above. The point was never to argue peak (which is a separate discussion entirely). The point was to argue that peak is all MJ has got (just like Koufax).
And if that's all he's got, he's no GOAT. BOAT? Maybe. But GOAT? Not compared to a guy who has played 21 years of pro basketball now at a top 5-10 level for its entirety (with the majority of it spent as the best player in the NBA).
LeBron was the best player in the league for about 14 years until Jokic's arrival at the top (never been done). He's played at a top 5-10 level in the league for 21 years (never even been close to having been done).
Originally Posted by UteChief:
I have to ask KC Connection, how old are you?
Old enough to have seen both LeBron and MJ win championships. One didn't face anywhere near the same level of competition to achieve that feat though. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Old enough to have seen both LeBron and MJ win championships. One didn't face anywhere near the same level of competition to achieve that feat though.
Only one of them lost a Finals as a heavy favortie while completely choking in the process (not to mention with a teammate playing at an MVP level) :-) [Reply]
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Only one of them lost a Finals as a heavy favortie while completely choking in the process (not to mention with a teammate playing at an MVP level) :-)
And only one of them needed Scottie Pippen to accomplish any team success whatsoever.
Remember all the 20-point second-half leads Michael Jordan’s teams blew in the playoffs? No, you don’t, because it didn’t fucking happen. pic.twitter.com/xU92E3PtVf
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Old enough to have seen both LeBron and MJ win championships. One didn't face anywhere near the same level of competition to achieve that feat though.
Yeah, I can only imagine MJ going up against those Mighty Mavericks.
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
Old enough to have seen both LeBron and MJ win championships. One didn't face anywhere near the same level of competition to achieve that feat though.
That’s fair and what I was trying to ascertain. I have a similar discussion with a colleague who is only 26. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
In any case, Koufax is not considered the greatest pitcher of all time precisely because he had a short career. He might be considered the "best" pitcher of all time because of his incredible peak but that's an entirely separate discussion.
The same applies to MJ at this point given LeBron's ridiculous longevity at the top of the game. Call him the best player ever if you wish (I'll still quibble with you on that), but he has no real argument for GOAT status any longer and hasn't for a long time now.
He's not considered the best of all time because he wasn't amazing in his early years either.
He burned fast and bright - same as dozens of other guys throughout every major sport.
He is far more akin to, say, James Harden than Michael Jordan. Or maybe Allen Iverson. Guys who weren't superlative players from day 1, hit a very high peak and then faded fairly quickly thereafter.
Ken Griffey Jr might be the sort of comp your looking for in that at his apex there was nobody like him and he was excellent from the start. But Jordan, unlike Griffey, didn't build his legacy on JUST his apex. because again, his apex very easily could be through 1991. [Reply]
