Originally Posted by RunKC:
That’s the problem though. The Chiefs draft these high ceiling insane athletes like Chris Conley and Mecole Hardman and they amount to total shit bc they have no idea how to actually play football. It was the same way with DeAnthony Thomas and Albert Wilson. We drafted returners with amazing athleticism and are shocked they can’t sell routes well. Only Tyreek Hill worked and a large part of that was him getting really good at his mechanics.
Having elite speed in this league is nothing if you can’t play football. Go ahead and look at guys from Darius Heyward-Bey to John Ross to Mecole Hardman. Everyone is fast. Everyone.
Kelce and Tyreek win bc of their speed and their mechanics. Their routes are sold very well, their hands are good and their smarts are open zones. That’s probably why Kelce can be an effective player for 3 more years if he wants.
That’s why I wasn’t a big fan of George Pickens. Im tired of athletes with size who have to be taught how to play the game.
Im telling you this kid is gonna be awesome this year. He’s gonna be used just like Albert Wilson. Outside and in the slot. You’re gonna love him by mid season.
Y'know that's how we got Travis Kelce, right?
That's how we'll have to get ANY elite player we end up with over the coming decade.
And ultimately maybe the next year or two is when we'll find some of those at WR and Moore is a complementary player long-term. Again - that's fine. Many 2nd rounders give you nothing precisely because teams focus on ceiling over floor. And I don't think it's a good idea to focus exclusively on one or the other.
I simply don't see how an undersized WR with quality of competition concerns who also doesn't have an elite athletic profile is some exceptionally high floor kid, especially not when taken in the 2nd round. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
This is going to be a polarizing pick for years to come.
The Chiefs got 700 yards out of Mecole Hardman and the fans hate him.
The Chiefs will get 700 yards out of Skyy Moore and the fans will love him to death for it.
That's how this will go.
Skyy Moore will produce no matter what because it's what Andy Reid and Mahomes do.
Yup.
Because we're headed down Frank Clark road.
If Moore gets 60 receptions for 700 yards, the handjobs will be wet and frequent. Because somehow running quick hitters underneath zones is not a 'gadget player' whereas anything Hardman does will be.
And when he gets that 60 receptions for 700 yards, I'll get called out because I'm a hater when in fact I think that's probably a pretty reasonable prediction. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Y'know that's how we got Travis Kelce, right?
That's how we'll have to get ANY elite player we end up with over the coming decade.
And ultimately maybe the next year or two is when we'll find some of those at WR and Moore is a complementary player long-term. Again - that's fine. Many 2nd rounders give you nothing precisely because teams focus on ceiling over floor. And I don't think it's a good idea to focus exclusively on one or the other.
I simply don't see how an undersized WR with quality of competition concerns who also doesn't have an elite athletic profile is some exceptionally high floor kid, especially not when taken in the 2nd round.
If we're wanting to get away from the "stars and scrubs" method everyone hates, isn't this the way to do it? I mean, if we wanna take swings at high upside athletes, the majority aren't gonna hit. Which, fine, that's how you get Tyreek and Kelce.
But you're also gonna end up barren in some spots. [Reply]
He's a 2nd rounder. What's teh expectation there? Most aren't gonna turn into #1 WR's. Hell if you hit and he turns into Tyler Lockett, that's great. [Reply]
If Moore gets 60 receptions for 700 yards, the handjobs will be wet and frequent. Because somehow running quick hitters underneath zones is not a 'gadget player' whereas anything Hardman does will be.
And when he gets that 60 receptions for 700 yards, I'll get called out because I'm a hater when in fact I think that's probably a pretty reasonable prediction.
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
This is going to be a polarizing pick for years to come.
The Chiefs got 700 yards out of Mecole Hardman and the fans hate him.
The Chiefs will get 700 yards out of Skyy Moore and the fans will love him to death for it.
That's how this will go.
Skyy Moore will produce no matter what because it's what Andy Reid and Mahomes do.
Mecole got 700 yards as a schemed player taking shovel passes for TD’s. He also had the benefit of being on a team with prime Tyreek and Kelce, not to mention some games with Sammy. That makes life so much easier when you’re facing the 3rd corner 1v1 in schemed plays.
Skyy won’t get that luxury. Tyreek and Sammy are gone and Kelce is entering his declining years. It’s a different world for him. So yeah 700 yards would be more impressive given the circumstances.
It also says a lot that the Chiefs brass pretty much shit all over Mecole without saying his name after drafting this kid to replace him. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
If we're wanting to get away from the "stars and scrubs" method everyone hates, isn't this the way to do it? I mean, if we wanna take swings at high upside athletes, the majority aren't gonna hit. Which, fine, that's how you get Tyreek and Kelce.
But you're also gonna end up barren in some spots.
I think you've gotta do both.
And with McDuffie, Karlaftis, Moore, Cooks and Williams (who cares about 7th rounders?) I think we focused almost entirely on the floor over the ceiling.
That's just too heavily tilted in that direction. That's the most draft capital we've had in decades and the VAST majority of it went to 'safe' picks.
I think the 2008 draft class is probably the most comparable we've had in terms of capital.
And with that class we took a few safe picks (Dorsey, Flowers, Morgan) and a few more aggressive ones (Albert, Charles, Cottam, Carr)
And we scattered them throughout. Here we took all safe picks early with a couple of higher upside ones late. Even the aggressive swings we took on Chenal and Dennard aren't really that aggressive, those are high floor guys who ALSO have high ceilings.
Just seems like we overcorrected a hair. I'd have like to have a seen a few more balls/bust picks in there. A Drake Jackson sort, Jalen Tolbert. And mix in the McDuffie over Gordon pick or the Karlaftis over Ebiketie. That's cool - I understand the need for floor.
I just think we went too hard in that direction. [Reply]
C’mon guys. How many yards and TD’s from Mecole were quick tosses tosses or jet sweeps behind the LOS? We could have had a day 3 pick like DAT do this shit.
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Mecole got 700 yards as a schemed player taking shovel passes for TD’s. He also had the benefit of being on a team with prime Tyreek and Kelce, not to mention some games with Sammy. That makes life so much easier when you’re facing the 3rd corner 1v1 in schemed plays.
Skyy won’t get that luxury. Tyreek and Sammy are gone and Kelce is entering his declining years. It’s a different world for him. So yeah 700 yards would be more impressive given the circumstances.
It also says a lot that the Chiefs brass pretty much shit all over Mecole without saying his name after drafting this kid to replace him.
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I think you've gotta do both.
And with McDuffie, Karlaftis, Moore, Cooks and Williams (who cares about 7th rounders?) I think we focused almost entirely on the floor over the ceiling.
That's just too heavily tilted in that direction. That's the most draft capital we've had in decades and the VAST majority of it went to 'safe' picks.
I think the 2008 draft class is probably the most comparable we've had in terms of capital.
And with that class we took a few safe picks (Dorsey, Flowers, Morgan) and a few more aggressive ones (Albert, Charles, Cottam, Carr)
And we scattered them throughout. Here we took all safe picks early with a couple of higher upside ones late. Even the aggressive swings we took on Chenal and Dennard aren't really that aggressive, those are high floor guys who ALSO have high ceilings.
Just seems like we overcorrected a hair. I'd have like to have a seen a few more balls/bust picks in there. A Drake Jackson sort, Jalen Tolbert. And mix in the McDuffie over Gordon pick or the Karlaftis over Ebiketie. That's cool - I understand the need for floor.
I just think we went too hard in that direction.
We're in a different spot now though. You've got a force multiplier at QB. So those floors are gonna automatically be raised by that.
I get it on defense, but we've also talked about defense being more sum than individual parts.
I understand where you're coming from philosophically, but they're also in a spot where depth matters more simply because they've already got the high end guys.
They need the next age of high end guys, but they'll have to develop them. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RunKC:
C’mon guys. How many yards and TD’s from Mecole were quick tosses tosses or jet sweeps behind the LOS? We could have had a day 3 pick like DAT do this shit.
We just took a day 3 pick like DAT in the 2nd round.
Just like we took DAT in the 2nd round.
History repeats itself.
But I'm sure the 5'9'' dude with the sub-standard 3-cone time is just gonna go out there wrecking man coverage and won't have to be schemed into space.
Like I said - Frank Clark road. We're gonna keep watering down expectations. Literally an hour ago he was possibly the best WR in the class and a future #1. Now 700 yards is cool.
