How are your evaluations of the following players potentially affected by this Super Bowl run?
LT Orlando Brown Jr
This guy has been very good down the stretch. Most of the people on this forum believe in tagging him and we recently had a mock posted where someone traded him.
WR JuJu Smith-Schuster
We got a ton of love for JuJu on this forum, and most of the forum believes in bringing him back at a relatively hefty deal (my most recent one was just shy of $13m/year). But he has 3 receptions in two games, one of which the Chiefs won handily and the other they would have won handily if Mahomes had two legs or half the WR corps didn't end up in the ER. Maybe it's time to rethink his value once free agency shows up.
DE Frank Clark
You knew this name was coming up.
TE Blake Bell
This forum has been mixed on whether we bring him back or not. Not sure if the playoff games change how y'all feel about him.
S Juan Thornhill
This guy has been a hot mess in the five different roles we seem to have run him through over the years, and we've been harping on this guy bouncing back from his ACL tear poorly starting in 2020. But down the stretch in 2022, he played damn well.
DT Khalen Saunders
We've had some differing opinions on Khalen as well -- I'm in the minority, it seems, that believe we should let him walk. But he has been an important player down the stretch. I'm not sure how that affects my evaluation just yet. How about you?
OT/G Andrew Wylie
I think most of us believe Wylie is invaluable as a utility man along the OL. I'm open to hear if anybody has backed off that evaluation.
WR Mecole Hardman
I think most of us understand that Hardman may have priced himself out of Kansas City. But having watched Skyy Moore essentially play his position, it's easy to see how superior he is at his role on this team. Now that he's nursing an injury, he may be a cheap re-sign for a year. [Reply]
LT Orlando Brown Jr
I don't pretend he's better than he is. Fortunately for us, Mahomes makes magic happen instead of getting swallowed up like most QBs do when faced with the same pressure. I want no more than for the Chiefs to get a LT in the first round and quit fucking around with this dumpster fire.
WR JuJu Smith-Schuster
As you alluded to, it's about the price tag. I'm not signing this guy for 20 million per if I'm Veach. I think there are better options out there, honestly.
DE Frank Clark
A lot of people here are all-in on the playoff Frank. I'd rather spend money on a DE that shows up for both the regular season and playoffs. I wouldn't pay Frank anything near his price tag next year, it's bordering on insanity. Unless he does the same thing for next season that he did for this one, see ya.
TE Blake Bell
Meh. I really don't get all the love to be honest.
S Juan Thornhill
The Chiefs drafted his replacement. It really doesn't matter how I feel, he's getting the boot. I think he's also outplayed any contract that would make sense for KC to bring him back.
DT Khalen Saunders
I don't care for him. He's tough to move but he also doesn't move off the snap well. Unless he gets a clear path, he really doesn't make any plays. If I were KC, I'd let everyone walk at DT not named Chris Jones and change the guard there.
OT/G Andrew Wylie
Wylie is invaluable as a future not-a-KC-Chief. He blows. I'd rather bring back Allegretti at OG and then go get an actual OT.
WR Mecole Hardman
I really like Mecole in his role but, much like Thornhill, that ship has already sailed I think. He just isn't good enough to be any more than what he is either, which could keep his price down. I'd love it if you could get him on a Kendrick Bourne type of deal to come back. I just don't think it's in the cards. [Reply]
Wylie blows goats, and with him gone, I finally am rid of my loathing for Reiter and Wylie the duo.
Brown? I'd rather get similar production on a rookie deal or a cheaper vet. I don't think he's special, and therefore we cannot pay him 'special' money.
Clark? Gone. Love play-off Clark. Done with regular season Clark.
Saunders? meh, it's not like he'll be expensive. I'd keep him, he's a solid rotational player.
Juju misses too much time to pay big money. Move on.
Thornhill? We've already drafted his replacement. Move on.
Hardman? I think missing half of the season may play to KC's advantage and Hardman may take a cheap one year deal to improve his market in '24. The smart move for him, honestly, as KC manufactures touches that make the absolute best of his skillset. He won't do better anywhere else and I'm sure he knows that. [Reply]
I don't agree with y'all's valuation of several players, up to and including Orlando Brown.
But we are probably the farthest apart on Andrew Wylie.
Wylie is exactly who you need on the roster. He is a guy who, if things fall apart, can start for a season.
I think you bring him back, you draft a tackle early, and you have them battle it out at RT. Wylie probably loses, probably? And he backs you up at three positions. There's no one else we go sign who can do that. We need that versatility.
So the question for 2023 is, Allegretti and Wylie both back up three positions, but Allegretti backs up center and Wylie backs up right tackle. Which is more valuable? I think it's clearly the latter. [Reply]
Now that we've seen Skyy Moore take those jet sweeps and such, I don't think there's any question that Mecole Hardman is superior in that role. I'm with Chris Meck that bringing him back for the year is sensible.
Of course, there is one person who does better at Mecole's role, and that's Kadarious Toney. But the way he's played, I think he's a more sensible replacement for the JuJu intermediate role than he is the gadget role. Given his lack of durability, I don't think you play him in both roles. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I don't agree with y'all's valuation of several players, up to and including Orlando Brown.
But we are probably the farthest apart on Andrew Wylie.
Wylie is exactly who you need on the roster. He is a guy who, if things fall apart, can start for a season.
I think you bring him back, you draft a tackle early, and you have them battle it out at RT. Wylie probably loses, probably? And he backs you up at three positions. There's no one else we go sign who can do that. We need that versatility.
So the question for 2023 is, Allegretti and Wylie both back up three positions, but Allegretti backs up center and Wylie backs up right tackle. Which is more valuable? I think it's clearly the latter.
Being able to play at three positions at a terrible level does not make a player valuable. Wylie is absolutely horrendous as an OT and it's not like he's any better as an OG. If you call that valuable then this discussion isn't much worth having in my opinion.
I'll take the guy that has shown to be able to play at a starter level at OG over the shit show. Thanks. [Reply]
The last thing you want to do is pay for past performance. Thats how you get old and expensive, which just doesn't work when you are paying a QB.
JuJu and Hardman are gone. I'll keep MVS.
You just can't keep Frank Clark, love him in the playoffs, but he's not worth the price. Credit Veach for working something out this season, but its time to cash out.
Now OBJ is a real headache. Would love to move on, but that's hard to do when you are drafting late. I mean we are protecting the best damn QB in football. Too either Veach has to pull a huge trade out of his ass, or you are just going to deal with OBJ at LT at least for one more year. [Reply]
Thornhill is the frustrating one for me. I won't care if he helps us win a SB, but he was liquid s*** earlier in the year and for a large part of his time here outside his rookie year. Turns it on down the stretch to make it more of a headache. But as others have said, I think it's immaterial, he's gone, and with Reid paid I'm not sure you can put the resource into safety. It's possible someone gets a great player on a decent deal, but they may also get fleeced.
Other than that.
OBJ - I'd probably tag. I'd pay him, but not what he wants. He's good, he's not top 1 good and can't be paid like that.
Juju - I wouldn't pay what I reckon he'll want
Hardman - We're taken it as a given he'll be offered a lot, I dunno. The rest of the league might see what we've seen. I'd be tempted to keep in the scenario Chris suggests.
Saunders - Not fussed. If he's anything above about $4m I'd boot. I'd probably offer less, expect him to walk and just try and get a nose tackle later in the draft.
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Being able to play at three positions at a terrible level does not make a player valuable. Wylie is absolutely horrendous as an OT and it's not like he's any better as an OG. If you call that valuable then this discussion isn't much worth having in my opinion.
I'll take the guy that has shown to be able to play at a starter level at OG over the shit show. Thanks.
Find me a guy that can play back up guard positions and tackle at an NFL starter level.
There can't be even three of those guys in the NFL. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I don't agree with y'all's valuation of several players, up to and including Orlando Brown.
But we are probably the farthest apart on Andrew Wylie.
Wylie is exactly who you need on the roster. He is a guy who, if things fall apart, can start for a season.
I think you bring him back, you draft a tackle early, and you have them battle it out at RT. Wylie probably loses, probably? And he backs you up at three positions. There's no one else we go sign who can do that. We need that versatility.
So the question for 2023 is, Allegretti and Wylie both back up three positions, but Allegretti backs up center and Wylie backs up right tackle. Which is more valuable? I think it's clearly the latter.
I think you take both them back unless you draft a back up late on which is possible. I think Wylie is great as a backup. Much better to have a guy who knows the system come in than someone new.
I am not sure what Hardman commands in free agency but if he can't find a market after his injury this season then a cheap deal would be great given what he gives us in the red zone.
Juju - I was all in on him about 2 months ago but he doesn't seem to be being used much at the moment. I think he may be too expensive for the production.
MVS - not a free agent but we can save 7m by cutting him. Has been much better in the play offs but not great during the regular season. If we draft someone at wide reciever then cutting him makes sense. I would rather Hardman than him.
OBJ - don't think he plays on the tag. I think if you can get a good free agent at right tackle you can let him go and then either move Thuney over or trade up slightly to get a rookie. If you have 4 solid lineman then a rookie at left tackle could work.
Saunders - bring back if cheap. If not go for a top guy in FA and draft a long term guy. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
Find me a guy that can play back up guard positions and tackle at an NFL starter level.
There can't be even three of those guys in the NFL.
What I'm trying to tell you is that Wylie isn't NFL starter-level. He's terrible. I don't know what you see but I see sucks and ass put together immediately following his name. [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
Wylie can play. I mean, he's not good or elite or anything obviously, but he can atleast be functional.
I can't imagine they don't try to upgrade that spot somehow.
He's probably not signing on a vet minimum deal and he has zero growth curve ahead of him. He is what he is, which is a guy that is, in my opinion, reserve guard quality at his best thrust into a starting tackle role where he's severely overmatched and out of place.
I would keep a better guard in Allegretti and would find a tackle elsewhere.
If you guys want to champion keeping him, that's your right to your opinion. I just strongly prefer that doesn't happen and I can't do the same. [Reply]