Just hearing this garbage about these guys is annoying as hell. Why do they get to get in?
What has Rivers done besides stat padding?
Eli never had an all pro season, never had a QB rating higher than 94 and won all of his postseason games with defenses that gave up 21 or less points.
Is the HOF really going this soft? Will they literally let just anyone that’s played forever in? [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Oh, I wouldn't go that far with Rivers. He was no Dan Marino.
If Rivers gets in, the I guess the floodgates will open for other non-deserving QB's like Matt Ryan and Matt Stafford (at least to date - maybe he'll do something with the Rams but until he does, he's just another guy with a bunch of stats).
I really hope the writers are smart enough to see that while Rivers has big numbers, he was never able to put the Chargers on his back and will his team to a significant victory, even while playing next to two other Hall of Famers in Tomlinson and Gates.
As for Eli, the dude won two Super Bowls for the New York Giants. He's a shoo-in.
I’d have to do some number crunching so I’ll revisit this post in like 2 or 3 days-going out of town-but Rivers was a phenomenal QB who literally got the wrong results in the postseason similar to Marino.
The 2006 loss to the Patriots was in large part due to an incredibly fluke fumble on an interception return that Marty wasted his last timeout on an unsuccessful challenge in addition to Kaeding shitting the bed
He went toe to toe with the 2007 Patriots on a torn ACL in the AFC Championship game in Foxboro.
Yes, his team didn’t make the SB, took advantage of a down AFC West for like 5 years, but he still played at a high level.
Ryan’s probably in for longevity along with multiple PO appearances and a MVP. Stafford is similar caliber of him but was stuck in Detroit. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
What's sad is that Davis had a total of 8,887 yards and 60 TD's while playing next to the #1 overall pick in 1983 and a fellow Hall of Famer, while Priest Holmes had 86 TD's and 11,134 total yards while playing next to Trent Dilfer, Tony Banks, Damon Huard and a broken Trent Green.
If there's any organization that needs to clean house, it's the Pro Football Writers of America.
And what's a damn shame is that Terez is no longer here to talk some sense into those morons.
I hear all the time from Donk homers, "He had a 2000 yard season!"
Okay. Then put Chris Johnson in the HOF. You run for 2000, you get in the hall!
Then they hem and haw about "Well, it was the 2000 yard season in a Super Bowl year, and blah blah blah..." [Reply]
There's going to have to be a new more stringent benchmark for QBs in the HOF. QB play used to boil down to throwing more TDs than INTs in a season, and the guys who did that consistently got in the HOF (and they also had to win Super Bowls and/or have legendary and lengthy careers).
It's pretty easy for any asshat these days to meet those standards, so the NFL HOF is going to have to start being choosy. Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, and Matt Stafford all have HOF career numbers, but you're going to put all three of those guys in the hall? You start doing that and pretty soon you won't have room for any of the other legendary players at other positions.
You keep going down this path and it becomes a slippery slope to putting Kirk Cousins, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, and Cam Newton in the hall, too.
It's gotta stop at some point. Draw the line and mark it clearly for fuck's sake. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rams Fan:
I’d have to do some number crunching so I’ll revisit this post in like 2 or 3 days-going out of town-but Rivers was a phenomenal QB who literally got the wrong results in the postseason similar to Marino.
The 2006 loss to the Patriots was in large part due to an incredibly fluke fumble on an interception return that Marty wasted his last timeout on an unsuccessful challenge in addition to Kaeding shitting the bed
He went toe to toe with the 2007 Patriots on a torn ACL in the AFC Championship game in Foxboro.
Yes, his team didn’t make the SB, took advantage of a down AFC West for like 5 years, but he still played at a high level.
Ryan’s probably in for longevity along with multiple PO appearances and a MVP. Stafford is similar caliber of him but was stuck in Detroit.
In short, cornerbacks and safeties could all but mug receivers in Marino's era, whereas one wrong look could be called for a penalty during Rivers' era.
And trust me, Rivers got a lot those calls. [Reply]
Rivers and Eli have the stats to be considered, but Rivers probably won't get in because of his utter lack of playoff success.
Eli will get in in large part because his brother is considered perhaps the best QB of all time. But the fact is, that outside of two Rings and some flashes of brilliance in those two playoff runs, Eli was statistically exactly dead-nuts average as an NFL QB. And even in those SB runs, look at his numbers; a tick over 200 yds/gm, a bit over 60% completion percentage, just 6 Td passes in 2007 through 4 games, and 9 in 2011 campaign, so something less than 2 Tds/game and a couple ticks over 2 TDs a game in 2011. Whoopee.
But TD/INT ratio, the one stat that jumps out at you. 3:1 in 2007, and a whopping 9:1 in 2011. Outside of that one stat line, Eli was basically Teddy Bridgewater. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
There's going to have to be a new more stringent benchmark for QBs in the HOF. QB play used to boil down to throwing more TDs than INTs in a season, and the guys who did that consistently got in the HOF (and they also had to win Super Bowls and/or have legendary and lengthy careers).
It's pretty easy for any asshat these days to meet those standards, so the NFL HOF is going to have to start being choosy. Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, and Matt Stafford all have HOF career numbers, but you're going to put all three of those guys in the hall? You start doing that and pretty soon you won't have room for any of the other legendary players at other positions.
You keep going down this path and it becomes a slippery slope to putting Kirk Cousins, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, and Cam Newton in the hall, too.
It's gotta stop at some point. Draw the line and mark it clearly for ****'s sake.
I don't know if there's any possible compilation of these numbers, but Matt Ryan has got to be the all-time leader in garbage yards. I've had him as a fantasy QB a few times, and 58 yds/0 TDs in the 1st half was never a concern. With the game out of hand, he was always good for 250/2 TDs in the 2nd half, most coming in 4Q. [Reply]
Eli is like Trent Dilfer if Trent Dilfer was carried to one more Superbowl by that defense. The only thing Eli had to do was not fuck it up, and he did that, but not fuck it up doesn't deserve to be in the hall of fame. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Megatron96:
Rivers and Eli have the stats to be considered, but Rivers probably won't get in because of his utter lack of playoff success.
Eli will get in in large part because his brother is considered perhaps the best QB of all time. But the fact is, that outside of two Rings and some flashes of brilliance in those two playoff runs, Eli was statistically exactly dead-nuts average as an NFL QB. And even in those SB runs, look at his numbers; a tick over 200 yds/gm, a bit over 60% completion percentage, just 6 Td passes in 2007 through 4 games, and 9 in 2011 campaign, so something less than 2 Tds/game and a couple ticks over 2 TDs a game in 2011. Whoopee.
But TD/INT ratio, the one stat that jumps out at you. 3:1 in 2007, and a whopping 9:1 in 2011. Outside of that one stat line, Eli was basically Teddy Bridgewater.
Yeah but the reality is he still won two Super Bowls and beat some legends in the process. Not many QBs have ever won more. And a lot of winning QBs don't blow through the playoffs. That's a fantasy. Roethlisberger won 2 but his first one he put up a truly horrible stat line. Russell Wilson was a 200 yards/game passer early in his career with an all-time defense. Peyton Manning threw a bunch of INT during the Colts Super Bowl run and we all know he was completely washed during the last one. To this point even Mahomes career Super Bowl stats are fairly average.
Honestly the two QBs in recent years who really turned it on in the playoffs and just had a lights out playoff run all the way through were Joe Flacco and Nick Foles. [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
There's going to have to be a new more stringent benchmark for QBs in the HOF. QB play used to boil down to throwing more TDs than INTs in a season, and the guys who did that consistently got in the HOF (and they also had to win Super Bowls and/or have legendary and lengthy careers).
It's pretty easy for any asshat these days to meet those standards, so the NFL HOF is going to have to start being choosy. Matt Ryan, Philip Rivers, and Matt Stafford all have HOF career numbers, but you're going to put all three of those guys in the hall? You start doing that and pretty soon you won't have room for any of the other legendary players at other positions.
You keep going down this path and it becomes a slippery slope to putting Kirk Cousins, Ryan Tannehill, Derek Carr, and Cam Newton in the hall, too.
It's gotta stop at some point. Draw the line and mark it clearly for ****'s sake.
I agree 100%, but then again, I hate QBs not named Mahomes or Dawson. As mentioned in a previous post, yards and TDs that come in garbage time are just that - garbage. What did the guy do for his team? Rivers choked way too many times and Eli seldom had to put the team on his back. [Reply]
Eli was NEVER one of the best QB during his time in the league.
Not even top 10.
Fucking retarded he can ride the backs of his superbowl defense and somehow eventually will get inducted into Canton, at least most people believe he will.
Not deserving at all......same with Rivers. Rivers was a choke artist. You can't be a chokeartist and be in the HoF, man. [Reply]
Originally Posted by CoMoChief:
Eli was NEVER one of the best QB during his time in the league.
This is my issue. Eli was pretty average throughout a great deal of his career. Outside of durability (he did have a great Iron Man run) and a couple hot postseason runs (that I am so, so thankful for), he's just blah. It's tough to remember each individual season going so far back, but I think you're right. He was probably not even top 10 for the vast majority of his tenure.
Rivers, on the other hand, was definitely top 5 pretty frequently and generally at least top 8. He was a very good QB for quite a while, but the lack of postseason success really kills him. And I really hate to judge QBs by team accolades, but at some point I kind of feel like, if you truly are that great, you would have won something of significance at some point in a 15+ year career. [Reply]
My rule is simple. If we need to debate it, that player is not deserving of induction. Neither player (nor Frank Gore) should be inducted. The longer this thread goes, the more correct is the theory.
Conversely, if someone started a thread asking if Drew Brees was HOF worthy, the discussion wouldn't last long. [Reply]