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The Lounge>A Craig Stout theory on why Mahomes/offense has struggled.
Direckshun 03:31 AM 11-29-2021
His theory is because when defenses are playing the Chiefs, they change up their tendencies completely.

Teams normally do not play two-high shells like they've played against the Chiefs and other teams this season. So ultimately, when they face up against the Chiefs, they are trotting out a new look that the Chiefs simply don't have on tape. Certain players are playing in certain areas that they normally don't, so it's hard to tell in certain circumstances whether this player or that player will play shallow or deeper or bite on certain routes and whatnot. It's simply not on tape.

He mentions this because of the games where the offense has rolled. In particular, the Raiders played a lot of single-high, which they've done all season. Andy Reid's extensive scouting meant the Chiefs had a counter for everything they did and ended up dominating.

The Chargers played us in a two-high shell, but they normally play in a two-high shell anyway, so Andy Reid had that on tape, and had a counter for everything they did and the offense ended up dominating, even though we lost the game.

Otherwise, we're facing two-deeps from teams that simply don't play two-deep and they can only gameplan against what they think the scheme may end up -- all the defensive tape leading up to the game is not very helpful.

It's a plausible theory that we obviously can't prove at this point, but we can certainly keep an eye on it.

Does anybody know what defense Denver usually plays? Any Denver fans among us?
[Reply]
MVChiefFan 08:02 AM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
His theory is because when defenses are playing the Chiefs, they change up their tendencies completely.

Teams normally do not play two-high shells like they've played against the Chiefs and other teams this season. So ultimately, when they face up against the Chiefs, they are trotting out a new look that the Chiefs simply don't have on tape. Certain players are playing in certain areas that they normally don't, so it's hard to tell in certain circumstances whether this player or that player will play shallow or deeper or bite on certain routes and whatnot. It's simply not on tape.

He mentions this because of the games where the offense has rolled. In particular, the Raiders played a lot of single-high, which they've done all season. Andy Reid's extensive scouting meant the Chiefs had a counter for everything they did and ended up dominating.

The Chargers played us in a two-high shell, but they normally play in a two-high shell anyway, so Andy Reid had that on tape, and had a counter for everything they did and the offense ended up dominating, even though we lost the game.

Otherwise, we're facing two-deeps from teams that simply don't play two-deep and they can only gameplan against what they think the scheme may end up -- all the defensive tape leading up to the game is not very helpful.

It's a plausible theory that we obviously can't prove at this point, but we can certainly keep an eye on it.

Does anybody know what defense Denver usually plays? Any Denver fans among us?
Denver has always played a dirty, cheating defense.
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wazu 08:09 AM 11-29-2021
If this is the case then it’s good that we’re playing virtually every possible AFC playoff team in the regular season.
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Hammock Parties 08:13 AM 11-29-2021
No. Just stop dropping passes, missing blocks and turning the damn ball over.
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Chiefnj2 08:14 AM 11-29-2021
I dont know if I fully bye that excuse. How much variety is there under the two deep scheme. Youd think Reid and Bienamy would have seen it all through the years. I get there might be little nuances that might be new, but I thought the general concepts remain the same - run the ball and take the underneath routes that they give you.
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Buehler445 08:15 AM 11-29-2021
Alright, first.

Fuck Donk Forever.

Second. That’s a pretty good thought.
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Chiefsallday 08:16 AM 11-29-2021
He may have a point but ultimately the reason our offense has struggled is because of self inflicted mistakes in my mind. Correct those and we are 9-2 leading the whole NFL at this point
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-King- 08:44 AM 11-29-2021
So every team has their own super secret version of a two high defense that Reid and Mahomes have never seen until game day?
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Direckshun 08:47 AM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by Chiefnj2:
I don’t know if I fully bye that excuse. How much variety is there under the two deep scheme. You’d think Reid and Bienamy would have seen it all through the years. I get there might be little nuances that might be new, but I thought the general concepts remain the same - run the ball and take the underneath routes that they give you.
Originally Posted by -King-:
So every team has their own super secret version of a two high defense that Reid and Mahomes have never seen until game day?
You have to keep in mind the meticulousness NFL teams, and in particular Reid/Bienemy, can be.

Mike DeVito mentioned on his podcast about going up against an Andy Reid offense and how they executed a pre-snap motion specifically because they knew how DeVito would shift in response, and then had him trapped on a play.

So, to stick with the DL metaphor, you never know what a 5-tech tends to do if you play him at 0-tech all game. You just kinda have to find out in real time, and while he is at somewhat of a disadvantage playing a position he rarely plays, he does have the jump on you.

We've seen that with back-sevens all season, really. They're all breaking tendency to play in a specific way against the Chiefs. And that has gotten the jump on us for much of the season.
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O.city 08:54 AM 11-29-2021
I think it's probably part of it. When you're going against tendencies it just takes time to figure it out.

But at this point you've gotta figure teams are gonna do that.
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wazu 08:58 AM 11-29-2021
I remember Mitchell Schwartz commenting on twitter once about how the "halftime" adjustments aren't really much of a thing in reality. Said they rarely see unscouted looks. If teams are adjusting a bunch and rolling out new looks to try to contain the Chiefs it could definitely explain why the offense generally seems less sure of itself than it has in the past. Maybe it's something they learn/grow from.
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Hoover 09:16 AM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by wazu:
If this is the case then its good that were playing virtually every possible AFC playoff team in the regular season.
Bingo.

I just bet the Chiefs +700 to win the Super Bowl.
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Deberg_1990 09:21 AM 11-29-2021
Mahomes just needs to take what the defense gives him. Stop being so impatient at times.
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crayzkirk 10:00 AM 11-29-2021
Everyone has a theory...

Stop turning the ball over
Check your ego at the door and take what the defense is giving you
Run the Damn Ball
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TomBarndtsTwin 10:00 AM 11-29-2021
Originally Posted by Chiefsallday:
He may have a point but ultimately the reason our offense has struggled is because of self inflicted mistakes in my mind. Correct those and we are 9-2 leading the whole NFL at this point
IF what is being alleged in OP is true, then there is some value in seeing all these potential playoff teams prior to playoffs.

That said, I think the above is the more plausible reason for our 'struggles'. Self inflicted wounds. Most notably, turnovers. We never should have lost to either the Ravens or Chargers, we gave those 2 games away. We should be sitting at 9-2, best record in the NFL and the inside track to the #1 seed in the AFC. Instead, we have to win out and rely on a couple others losing games. It may happen.

The Bills and Titans games were just bad days at the office. Yeah, we 'struggled' in both of those games, but sometimes shit just happens. They're both good teams and both we're rolling at the point they played us. Also, don't discount the 'revenge factor'. Both of those teams had previously been whipped by us in the last 2 AFC Title games. Don't think for a second that didn't serve as motivation for them playing us. We were the sole reason they both missed out on playing in a Super Bowl. That hurts.

As long as we can take care of the ball and not turn it over (much) in our post-bye schedule, there's absolutely no reason we can't run the table. We are a better team they everyone left on our schedule.

We just need to hope for a couple losses by the Ravens, one more by the Tits, and one each by Buffalo and NE (which should take care of itself since they play each other twice). If that happens, we should be hosting another AFC Title Game in Arrowhead (not calling it Gay-Ha!).

That is all.
[Reply]
crayzkirk 11-29-2021, 10:01 AM
This message has been deleted by crayzkirk. Reason: duplicate post
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