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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>With OTAs approaching, this was our offseason.
Direckshun 09:17 AM 05-09-2023
Retirements: QB Chad Henne

The Chiefs cut: DE Frank Clark

The Chiefs let walk: RB Ronald Jones, FB Michael Burton, WR JuJu Smith-Schuster, WR Mecole Hardman, OT Orlando Brown Jr., OT Andrew Wylie, DT Khalen Saunders, DE Carlos Dunlap, S Juan Thornhill

The Chiefs signed: OT Jawaan Taylor (Jaguars) to a 4 year, $80m deal ($40m guaranteed), DE Charles Omenihu (49ers) to a 2 year, $16m deal ($8.6m guaranteed)

The Chiefs signed to minimum deals: QB Blaine Gabbert, WR Richie James, OT Donovan Smith, DT Byron Cowart, LB Drue Tranquill, S Mike Edwards

The Chiefs re-signed to minimum deals: RB Jerick McKinnon, WR Justin Watson, TE Blake Bell, OG/C Nick Allegretti, DT Derrick Nnadi, S Deon Bush

The Chiefs did this in the draft:

1. DE Felix Anudike-Uzomah, Kansas State
2. WR Rashee Rice, SMU
3. OT Wanya Morris, Oklahoma
4. DB Chamarri Conner, Virginia Tech
5. DE B.J. Thompson, Stephen F. Austin
6. DT Keondre Coburn, Texas
7. CB Nic Jones, Ball State

Notable UDFAs:

RB Deneric Prince, Tulsa
DE Truman Jones, Harvard
QB Todd Centeio, James Madison
[Reply]
Direckshun 09:30 AM 05-09-2023
Would I be the most hated man on this board if I said this was a fairly underwhelming offseason? It wasn't bad, but it was.. meh.

Veach absolutely nailed one thing: he bodied out the EDGE position.

The tackle position, which started the season with a question mark, is still a massive question mark. The WR position, which started the season as a question mark, is still a massive question mark. The DT position, which started the position as a question mark, is still a massive question mark.

He pushed more Mahomes money down the road, although not that much. And it sounds like the Chiefs haven't even engaged in extending Chris Jones. They may have even entertained conversations in trading him, which is why Jones tweeted that he wouldn't play anywhere else, in order to kill the trade market for him.

I really loved the Chiefs first two draft picks, but I strongly feel the Chiefs will regret Wanya Morris. They've now got two third round draft picks to play right tackle, and neither is ready now, nor perhaps will they be in the coming year. The late rounders all felt like special teamers, which, fine. The team needs core special teamers. Coburn was a good pick, however, and I'm enjoying the word of mouth leaking out of camp and from film-watchers on Nic Jones. FAU was a good draft pick, and is going to make the team better immediately and in the long run. But the refusal to trade up for the players they really wanted may end up biting them in the end. (Of course, I have my own suspicions for all that, but we don't need to relitigate that.)

I do think the biggest issue with Veach's offseason is that all his swings at WR failed to work out. And of course, the biggest gamble at all, in letting OBJ walk to the Bengals for basically $6m/year less than what we were offering, in order to sign a right tackle and hand the left tackle to a guy we signed in May for $4m, is sketchy at best, and disastrous at worst.

This all being said, Reid is going to figure this out. By December, my speculation is that Donovan Smith will probably not be on the field, Taylor will be at LT, and the team will make do with Niang at RT. Mahomes is operating at Prime Mahomes levels right now and will somehow make this weirdo WR room look far better than they are. The team's run game will slow down a lot due to the downgrade at runblocking at the tackle positions, but Mahomes is going to materialize wins and keep the Chiefs in the hunt. I believe they will be in the AFCCG again.

The problem is the path to get there. It's going to take a lot of bruises, and some losses, to get this team into its final form. And that may mean sacrificing home field advantage in the playoffs. The Bengals didn't collapse this offseason, the Bills are barely under the cap and will have Von Miller back, and the Jets are my sleeper team.

But so long as Mahomes is healthy, I cannot bet against him in the playoffs (except against an absolutely jacked Eagles team). I just feel like they could have surrounded him with a better team entering the season than the one we currently have.
[Reply]
RunKC 09:45 AM 05-09-2023
It seemed underwhelming bc there were no major moves aside from Jawaan Taylor. I think Veach was very smart this off-season bc he only overpaid for a RT, arguably a top 5 most important position on this team with the philosophy we employ.

But he did not overpay anyone. I have to commend Beach for sticking to his guns with Orlando Brown Jr. Paying him $23 million would have been a big mistake and he knew that.

They had big needs at WR, DE and tackle and they got those guys with the first 3 picks. I wanted Anton Harrison, but I’m cool with Donovan Smith.

We seemed to keep the WR corps together while adding another 2nd rd talent to boost the talent.

If we got Harrison, I’d imagine we would have taken someone like Isaiah McGuire at 95, but I’m very much fine with what we did bc I really like Felix.

The Bengals are out biggest hurdle to getting back to the SB this year and it was proven that you need a quality pass rush to slow their offense down. I love that we got some speed and bend off the edge with Felix and Thompson
[Reply]
Direckshun 09:53 AM 05-09-2023
Originally Posted by RunKC:
It seemed underwhelming bc there were no major moves aside from Jawaan Taylor. I think Veach was very smart this off-season bc he only overpaid for a RT, arguably a top 5 most important position on this team with the philosophy we employ.

But he did not overpay anyone. I have to commend Beach for sticking to his guns with Orlando Brown Jr. Paying him $23 million would have been a big mistake and he knew that.

They had big needs at WR, DE and tackle and they got those guys with the first 3 picks. I wanted Anton Harrison, but Im cool with Donovan Smith.

We seemed to keep the WR corps together while adding another 2nd rd talent to boost the talent.

If we got Harrison, Id imagine we would have taken someone like Isaiah McGuire at 95, but Im very much fine with what we did bc I really like Felix.

The Bengals are out biggest hurdle to getting back to the SB this year and it was proven that you need a quality pass rush to slow their offense down. I love that we got some speed and bend off the edge with Felix and Thompson
I commend Veach as well for not overpaying for Brown or JuJu. But I think literally every one of us would take Orlando Brown at LT for $16m/year. Hell, I think we'd all take him for $18m/year. Veach's inability to get him down, only for him to trot off and make our biggest rivals better for less, is potentially a disaster that could bite us in the end. That being said, it does take two to tango, and who knows what negotiations looked like behind closed doors.

There is no earthly reason, by the way, why you should be cool with Donovan Smith taking the starting LT job. It's going to collapse, and he's going to get benched. You don't sign competent left tackles in the middle of May for $4m.

We did not keep the WR corps together. JuJu was our best receiver in the Super Bowl, and he's a Patriot. Mecole had his best season, and he's a Jet. They are replaceable talents, not All Pros or anything. We've upgraded over Mecole with Toney, but it's not clear to me we have an answer to replace JuJu -- Rashee Rice is largely getting redshirted this year. Skyy Moore was far readier than he is now, and had a more NFL-ready skillset.

I do agree with your last paragraph. This team should be able to absolutely wear down offensive tackles all season. Our opponents' tackles are going to be asked to take on FAU one snap, then Karlaftis another, before putting Chris Jones in front of them. It's too much, and I do like our abilities there.

But the DT position is perilous (aside from the All Pro that we don't have under contract beyond this year). I suspect the team will be chomping at the waiver wire all season long, looking for a stout DT who can stop the run.
[Reply]
O.city 10:00 AM 05-09-2023
All you "draft and develop" guys are full of shit. Just absolutely full of shit.

"Draft and develop but only the guys I want you to draft".
[Reply]
Direckshun 10:07 AM 05-09-2023
Originally Posted by O.city:
All you "draft and develop" guys are full of shit. Just absolutely full of shit.

"Draft and develop but only the guys I want you to draft".
I am a fan of draft and develop -- I liked the first two picks the team made, I enjoyed the Coburn selection and I'm optimistic about Nic Jones. I don't even hate the Conner and Thompson selections, I just see them as core special teamers.

But taking the philosphy of draft and develop is not a blank check. I don't have to celebrate every pick, I can reasonably disagree. And I know for a virtual fact, as much of a fact as a fan on a couch can, that Rashee Rice is a good player who is simply not going to get a lot of snaps this year. And I know for an actual fact that Morris is a "let's hope the coaches can make a workable tackle out of him" guy because he sure wasn't very good at OU.

I think the Chiefs will have to live and die by the draft, and Veach's talents have ensured they'll live by it. I will say that he sure felt hamstrung in the first round this year. Just saying.

The bigger problem is Veach's relative struggles in free agency this year and the refusal of the team to either trade or extend Chris Jones.
[Reply]
RunKC 10:09 AM 05-09-2023
Not sure why you think Donovan Smith will fail miserably. Look at how absolutely terrible Orlando Brown Jr was last year. In all 3 losses he was cooked. He was beaten like a rented mule in those games.

And he even got Mahomes hurt bc again he could not block speed rushers. I think folks don’t look at how Mahomes helped him and Wylie.

The Chiefs essentially had to put training wheels on him. Watch the Bengals championship game. Chip after chip after chip and then designed screens, misdirection. They did not trust Orlando one but to be on an island out there.

The SB is the outlier bc nobody could rush the QB well in that game from either team. The field was just that bad.

The point is that Donovan Smith at worst is Orlando Brown Jr, but at least if he is, you are paying roughly 1/3 of his asking price and Taylor locking down the other side helps significantly.
[Reply]
O.city 10:11 AM 05-09-2023
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I am a fan of draft and develop -- I liked the first two picks the team made, I enjoyed the Coburn selection and I'm optimistic about Nic Jones. I don't even hate the Conner and Thompson selections, I just see them as core special teamers.

But taking the philosphy of draft and develop is not a blank check. I don't have to celebrate every pick, I can reasonably disagree. And I know for a virtual fact, as much of a fact as a fan on a couch can, that Rashee Rice is a good player who is simply not going to get a lot of snaps this year. And I know for an actual fact that Morris is a "let's hope the coaches can make a workable tackle out of him" guy because he sure wasn't very good at OU.

I think the Chiefs will have to live and die by the draft, and Veach's talents have ensured they'll live by it. I will say that he sure felt hamstrung in the first round this year. Just saying.

The bigger problem is Veach's relative struggles in free agency this year ands the refusal of the team to either trade or extend Chris Jones.
They've got a couple recently drafted WR's that we're already seemingly ready to throw away, plus the one they took this year.

Then at LT, they got a guy comparable to the one they just let walk for 1/8th the price and signed what they signed in FA.

Some people need to listen more to Chris Meck and DJ I think in terms of what and where the Chiefs are in terms of money with Mahomes contract being on the books.
[Reply]
Direckshun 10:14 AM 05-09-2023
Originally Posted by O.city:
They've got a couple recently drafted WR's that we're already seemingly ready to throw away, plus the one they took this year.

Then at LT, they got a guy comparable to the one they just let walk for 1/8th the price and signed what they signed in FA.

Some people need to listen more to Chris Meck and DJ I think in terms of what and where the Chiefs are in terms of money with Mahomes contract being on the books.
I'm not ready to throw either away. I think Moore is a fine receiver. And I think Rice will be really good too.

The idea that Smith is comparable to Brown... well. Let's revisit that conversation in October and see if you still want to stand by that.
[Reply]
JPH83 02:50 PM 05-09-2023
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I commend Veach as well for not overpaying for Brown or JuJu. But I think literally every one of us would take Orlando Brown at LT for $16m/year. Hell, I think we'd all take him for $18m/year. Veach's inability to get him down, only for him to trot off and make our biggest rivals better for less, is potentially a disaster that could bite us in the end. That being said, it does take two to tango, and who knows what negotiations looked like behind closed doors.

There is no earthly reason, by the way, why you should be cool with Donovan Smith taking the starting LT job. It's going to collapse, and he's going to get benched. You don't sign competent left tackles in the middle of May for $4m.

We did not keep the WR corps together. JuJu was our best receiver in the Super Bowl, and he's a Patriot. Mecole had his best season, and he's a Jet. They are replaceable talents, not All Pros or anything. We've upgraded over Mecole with Toney, but it's not clear to me we have an answer to replace JuJu -- Rashee Rice is largely getting redshirted this year. Skyy Moore was far readier than he is now, and had a more NFL-ready skillset.

I do agree with your last paragraph. This team should be able to absolutely wear down offensive tackles all season. Our opponents' tackles are going to be asked to take on FAU one snap, then Karlaftis another, before putting Chris Jones in front of them. It's too much, and I do like our abilities there.

But the DT position is perilous (aside from the All Pro that we don't have under contract beyond this year). I suspect the team will be chomping at the waiver wire all season long, looking for a stout DT who can stop the run.
There's plenty of question marks for sure. For me OT and WR are absolutely up in the air. We could be looking at an upgrade on last year in both or quite a big step back. The OBJ stuff left a bad taste in the mouth as, actually, did the Hardman move. I know OBJ got more guaranteed etc. but we wanted to keep, offered him more and still lost him to the B***als. Hardman I've no indication we wanted to keep him at all, which seems odd given what he got. On the other hand, maybe both guys just screwed themselves by being too proud. Seems that way.

WR as you say could be rough. That's a raw room. But if Toney steps up and Moore develops, who knows.

DT is definitely way too thin. I think we need one more body. The rest we're just going to have to wait and see. The DL has definitely been strengthened and the only move I really hated in the draft was the Conner one. I think we needed that extra pick and I don't get the player at all.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 06:23 AM 05-10-2023
Jeez, you guys make it sound like this is a borderline wildcard team.

For every unproven draftee, there's a veteran insurance policy, and vice versa. They would have to be dreadfully wrong at an awful lot of spots to fail.
[Reply]
Couch-Potato 07:29 AM 05-10-2023
I think we're deeper than we've ever been after this offseason!

That said, I would have preferred to pay OBJ and JuJu what they found on the open market.
[Reply]
Direckshun 07:49 AM 05-10-2023
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I believe they will be in the AFCCG again.
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Jeez, you guys make it sound like this is a borderline wildcard team.
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I believe they will be in the AFCCG again.
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I believe they will be in the AFCCG again.
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I believe they will be in the AFCCG again.
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I believe they will be in the AFCCG again.
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I believe they will be in the AFCCG again.
This Chiefs team is a damn good football team, and in my opinion a Top 4 team in the NFL.

But they're going to have to beat at least 2 of those four to win it all this year.

The question isn't for me "is the team going to be good?" or "are the Chiefs going to be able to figure out the roster?" They are, and they will.

Whether it's going to be enough to overcome a well stocked Bills team, a sneaky-great Jets team, and the Bengals and Eagles, is the mystery we're trying to solve here.
[Reply]
Direckshun 07:54 AM 05-10-2023
Originally Posted by Couch-Potato:
I think we're deeper than we've ever been after this offseason!

That said, I would have preferred to pay OBJ and JuJu what they found on the open market.
JuJu isn't what hurt, I don't think. That contract was probably beyond what I would have paid.

I think the second it was apparent to the Chiefs that they couldn't snag Beckham or Hopkins, they should have made the move to get Q or Zay.

That said, the Chiefs clearly believed they were so bereft at tackle aside from Taylor they signed Donovan Smith off the street.

They should have moved up, if that were the case, to book Anton Harrison.

And of course, my personal preference would have been them moving up for Nolan Smith or Mazi Smith, because I think Niang can man right tackle for a year if Andrew Wylie can.

I'm not going to grouse too much about FAU, because I think that was a smart pick at 31 and it's going to really boost the team longterm. FAU and Karlaftis can be a one-two punch that racks up a combined 25 sacks/season for like a 5 year stretch starting in a season or two.

I just think they should have moved up.
[Reply]
staylor26 09:51 AM 05-10-2023
:-)

The Chiefs had 3 major needs going into the offseason. OT, WR, and DE.

They added:

Jawaan Taylor (best RT on the market)
Donovan Smith (one of the best LTs on the market)
Wanya Morris (3rd round pick)

Richie James (sneaky good bargain signing)
Rashee Rice (2nd round pick)
Along with year 2 for Toney and Moore

Charles Omenihu (arguably the best young DE in FA)
Felix Anudike-Uzomah (1st round pick)
BJ Thompson (5th round pick)

They absolutely attacked those needs, and potentially got a lot better and deeper at all 3.

They also had a couple of really good under the radar second wave signings in Tranquil and Edwards.

It was a fantastic offseason. The only thing missing is a FA vet DT, and I think that's the last domino that will fall before camp.

I swear time is a flat circle. The same people say the same stupid shit like the reeruned OP, and Veach proceeds to drag his nuts across their face.
[Reply]
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