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Fantasy/CasinoPlanet>Alternate Reality Game 1: Chiefs
Rain Man 12:15 AM 03-22-2009
The original post is below in blue, but let's summarize it here based on the past few years.

1. If you're a new player, start with the current Chiefs roster. If you've been playing for a while you'll have your own evolved roster.

2. You can add any free agent that the Chiefs add.

3. You lose any free agent that the Chiefs lose, but only if they were on the Chiefs' roster when you began playing.

4. You can accept or reject any trade the Chiefs make as long as any Chiefs player involved is currently on your roster.

5. You do not get players that the Chiefs draft. You draft your own players, using the same draft picks that the Chiefs have.

6. You can trade down ONE time before the draft or after the draft. If you trade down before the draft, you get up to full value for your pick according to this chart: https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-V...-Rich-Hill.asp. (Note: this chart was updated in 2022.) If you trade down after the draft, the value of the picks you trade must be discounted by at least 35 percent. Any trade down must involve only the picks of one NFL team, and you cannot receive more than two picks more than you give up. (In other words, if you trade away one draft pick you cannot pick up more than three in return.) The other team's picks also must be picks that they held prior to the opening of the draft.

6. You can trade up ONE time before the draft or after the draft. If you trade up before the draft, you get up to full value for your pick according to this chart: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...t-trade-chart/. If you trade up after the draft, the value of the picks you trade must be discounted by at least 15 percent. Any trade up must involve only the picks of one NFL team. The other team's picks also must be picks that they held prior to the opening of the draft.

7. By the beginning of the season, you must reduce your total roster to include only 53 players.



Original post: You can ignore this now.


Spoiler!

Added Rules and Reminders:

1. Remember that you can draft undrafted rookies, so you don't have to select only guys who were drafted.

2. Anyone can change their rookie draft selections at any time, UNTIL we reach ten days before training camp. At that point, all picks will be locked in.

3. Each team can do ONE trade of draft picks if they like, using this chart:http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com...t-trade-chart/. However, if you're trading up, you have to pay 15 percent more than the stated value of the picks you're obtaining. If you're trading down, your pick's value will be discounted by 35 percent.

For example, if you want to trade up from the 20th pick in the 1st to the 10th pick, you can see from the chart that the 20th pick is worth 850 points. The 10th pick is normally 1,300 points, but by paying 15 percent more, it will cost you 1.15*1,300, or 1,495 points.

For example, if you want to trade down from the 20th pick in the 1st and pick up the 10th pick in the 2nd, your 20th pick would normally be worth 850 points, but in this game it will be worth 553 points. The 10th pick in the 2nd is worth 480 points, so you can get 73 points back from the other team.

You can do only ONE draft-pick trade up and ONE draft-pick trade down, and in each case you can only trade with one other team for their own picks. (In other words, you couldn't take the 73 points in the above example from a third team.)

[Reply]
Kellerfox 07:14 PM 04-13-2023
(Pre-draft analysis. More seasoned players, feel free to call me out if I flubbed the rules. Note, listed teams might not be correct, I need to adjust on some players)

————————

Pre-draft Roster

QB:
Patrick Mahomes (Chiefs)
Carson Strong (Eagles)

RB:
Breece Hall (Jets)
Kenneth Gainwell (Eagles)
Clyde Edwards-Helaire (Chiefs)

FB:


WR:
Skyy Moore (Chiefs - Drafted)
Marquez Valdes-Scantling (Chiefs*)
Frank Darby (Falcons)
Justyn Ross (Chiefs - Drafted)
Richie James (Chiefs*)

TE:
Travis Kelce (Chiefs)
Jody Fortson (Chiefs)

OT:
Orlando Brown Jr. (Chiefs*)
Jawaan Taylor (Chiefs*)
Darian Kinnard (Chiefs - Drafted)
Lucas Niang (Chiefs)
Geron Christian (Chiefs*)
Rasheed Walker (Packers)

OG:
Joe Thuney (Chiefs)
Trey Smith (Chiefs - Drafted)

OC:
Creed Humphrey (Chiefs - Drafted)
Nick Allegretti (Chiefs)

———————-

DT:
Chris Jones (Chiefs)
Eric Johnson (Colts)
Derrick Nnadi (Chiefs)
Khyris Tonga (Bears)
Tershawn Wharton (Chiefs)
Byron Cowert (Chiefs*)

DE:
Carlos Basham Jr. (Bills)
George Karlaftis (Chiefs - Drafted)
Charles Omenihu (Chiefs*)
Frank Clark (Chiefs)
Mike Danna (Chiefs)

OLB:
Willie Gay Jr. (Chiefs)
Drue Tranquill (Chiefs*)
Leo Chanel (Chiefs - Drafted)
Elijah Lee (Chiefs*)

ILB:
Nakobe Dean (Eagles)
Jermaine Carter (Chiefs*)
Isaiah McDuffie (Packers)

CB:
L’Jarius Sneed (Chiefs)
Rashad Fenton (Chiefs)
Mike Hughes (Lions)
Tariq Castro-Fields (49ers)

FS:
Mike Edwards (Chiefs*)
Nick Cross (Colts)

SS:
Justin Reid (Chiefs*)
Deon Bush (Chiefs*)

———————-

P:
Tommy Townsend (Chiefs)

K:
Harrison Butker (Chiefs)

LS:
James Winchester (Chiefs)

——————————-

FA’s Arriving:
Jawaan Taylor (Chiefs*)
Charles Omenihu (Chiefs*)
Drue Tranquill (Chiefs*)
Mike Edwards (Chiefs*)
Byron Cowert (Chiefs*)
Richie James (Chiefs*)


FA’s Departing (forced):
Michael Burton (Chiefs)
Mecole Hardman (Chiefs)
Andrew Wylie (Chiefs)
Derrick Nnadi (Chiefs)
Juan Thornhill (Chiefs)
Juju Smith Schuster (Chiefs*)
Justin Watson (Chiefs*)
Carlos Dunlap (Chiefs*)


Not trading / Cutting at this time, or elected to re-sign (I think I am eligible to keep all of these because they were not on my roster when I first started):

Justyn Ross (Chiefs - Drafted)
Orlando Brown Jr. (Chiefs*)
Geron Christian (Chiefs*)
Frank Clark (Chiefs)
Elijah Lee (Chiefs*)
Jermaine Carter (Chiefs*)
Rashad Fenton (Chiefs) - trade declined
[Reply]
kccrow 08:19 PM 04-13-2023
I'm not feeling much pressure this offseason.
Notes...
I'm still nervous with my OT situation but Raimann made some big strides at the end of last year at LT and so Taylor would be coming in a RT for me. I should address depth. The last thing I need is to whiff and end up with another G/C because I'm more than good on that front.
I have a good group of WRs but lack a true start/WR1 type.
I haven't exactly knocked it out of the park at DT lately. Madubuike and Seiler are a solid set of starters but whiffing on Blacklock and Nixon hurts. I need better depth at least.
I have holes at backup QB, 3rd RB, and FB (although I probably don't retain one and keep a guy elsewhere).
Other than that I'd feel like this roster is pretty much nails (toot toot).

These are my losses:
QB Chad Henne - Retired
RB Ronald Jones II - FA Loss
OT Geron Christian - Waived
WR JuJu Smith-Schuster - FA Loss
RT Andrew Wylie - FA Loss
FB Michael Burton - FA Loss
WR Justin Watson - FA Unsigned
DE Carlos Dunlap - FA Unsigned

Here's the roster as it stands:
Spoiler!


I'm also not accepting the trade for Toney so my draft picks will be:
1 31
2 63
3 95
3 100
4 134
5 166
6 209
6 217
7 249
7 250
[Reply]
kccrow 08:32 PM 04-13-2023
Originally Posted by Kellerfox:
(Pre-draft analysis. More seasoned players, feel free to call me out if I flubbed the rules. Note, listed teams might not be correct, I need to adjust on some players)

Not trading / Cutting at this time, or elected to re-sign (I think I am eligible to keep all of these because they were not on my roster when I first started):

Juju Smith Schuster (Chiefs*)
Justyn Ross (Chiefs - Drafted)
Justin Watson (Chiefs*)
Orlando Brown Jr. (Chiefs*)
Geron Christian (Chiefs*)
Frank Clark (Chiefs)
Carlos Dunlap (Chiefs*)
Elijah Lee (Chiefs*)
Jermaine Carter (Chiefs*)
Rashad Fenton (Chiefs) - trade declined
From how it's been played, you can keep them if they were on your roster if they were either a draft pick you made or if they were cut or traded and you do not accept. Basically, if their contract expires and you didn't pick them then you lose them. You can ask Rainman to clarify if this off base.

So, you lose JuJu, OBj, Watson, and Dunlap for sure.
The Chiefs cut Christian, Clark, Lee, and Carter, and traded Fenton so they would be fair game to keep if you had them on your roster last year.
Ross was signed last year so unless you drafted him or kept him on your roster as a FA signing you can't pick him up now.
[Reply]
Rain Man 09:05 PM 04-13-2023
Originally Posted by kccrow:
From how it's been played, you can keep them if they were on your roster if they were either a draft pick you made or if they were cut or traded and you do not accept. Basically, if their contract expires and you didn't pick them then you lose them. You can ask Rainman to clarify if this off base.

So, you lose JuJu, OBj, Watson, and Dunlap for sure.
The Chiefs cut Christian, Clark, Lee, and Carter, and traded Fenton so they would be fair game to keep if you had them on your roster last year.
Ross was signed last year so unless you drafted him or kept him on your roster as a FA signing you can't pick him up now.
Yep, this is the way I've always read it. You can only keep a guy if you drafted him, or if he's cut. Any other departures result in losing him.

You can add any guy to your roster that the Chiefs signed as a free agent after we did our final 53 cuts.

You can accept or reject any trades as long as you have the exact trade resources that were given up.
[Reply]
Kellerfox 10:27 PM 04-13-2023
Thanks for the clarification, I'll get it updated! About half that list falls off (Juju, Watson, and Dunlap) - and the other half (Christian, Lee, Carter, Fenton) are likely cuts for me post camp.

Confirming - do I/we lose OBJ since I/we spent draft picks to acquire him (via trade)?

Think the three of us as the current active owners are all on the same page now (minus my OBJ question above)… but it might be worth updating rule #3 in the OP for any future new owners as it can be interpreted to suggest that Chiefs FA acquisitions acquired after our first season can be retained.
[Reply]
kccrow 04:11 AM 04-14-2023
Originally Posted by Kellerfox:
Thanks for the clarification, I'll get it updated! About half that list falls off (Juju, Watson, and Dunlap) - and the other half (Christian, Lee, Carter, Fenton) are likely cuts for me post camp.

Confirming - do I/we lose OBJ since I/we spent draft picks to acquire him (via trade)?

Think the three of us as the current active owners are all on the same page now (minus my OBJ question above) but it might be worth updating rule #3 in the OP for any future new owners as it can be interpreted to suggest that Chiefs FA acquisitions acquired after our first season can be retained.
My vote would be you should be able to retain if draft or player capital was used to obtain another player.
[Reply]
Rain Man 11:43 AM 04-14-2023
Originally Posted by kccrow:
My vote would be you should be able to retain if draft or player capital was used to obtain another player.
I'm not sure what you mean.

We traded to get Orlando, but we could have chosen to reject that trade. Allowing him to leave as a free agent means we get no compensation. If they had cut him, we could vote to keep him instead. Am I missing some other nuance?
[Reply]
Kellerfox 05:27 PM 04-14-2023
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
I'm not sure what you mean.

We traded to get Orlando, but we could have chosen to reject that trade. Allowing him to leave as a free agent means we get no compensation. If they had cut him, we could vote to keep him instead. Am I missing some other nuance?
I think Crow was saying that you and I should be allowed to retain OBJ because we spent draft capital on him (making him the equivalent of a draft pick). [Crow can correct me if I am misinterpreting him]

I can read your post as being for or against that. Is your stance that you and I keep or lose OBJ?

Edit: this would be so much easier to hash out over a happy hour. It’s my stance that the NFL should be funding a Chiefs Planet Alternate Reality Game owners retreat once per quarter.
[Reply]
kccrow 10:41 PM 04-14-2023
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
I'm not sure what you mean.

We traded to get Orlando, but we could have chosen to reject that trade. Allowing him to leave as a free agent means we get no compensation. If they had cut him, we could vote to keep him instead. Am I missing some other nuance?
I was trying to convey that I would be in favor of you guys having the right to keep him instead of losing him as a free agent because draft capital was used to acquire him. If you had instead drafted a player directly in this game, even if KC also drafted him, he'd be yours forever until you decide you don't want him anymore, regardless of if the Chiefs let him go or not. The same would go for if you chose to trade for Toney instead of drafting guys in the 3rd and 6th, and so on. I just think we should allow players acquired via trade to be kept.
[Reply]
Rain Man 06:30 PM 04-27-2023
I dunno. I think we have to lose a player when he walks, regardless of how we got him. We know the risk when we make the trade.

If you both disagree, you can overrule me and we'll go with it. But my call would be that Brown walks just like he did with the Chiefs.
[Reply]
kccrow 06:57 PM 04-27-2023
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
I dunno. I think we have to lose a player when he walks, regardless of how we got him. We know the risk when we make the trade.

If you both disagree, you can overrule me and we'll go with it. But my call would be that Brown walks just like he did with the Chiefs.
I dunno if I'd be happy applying that across the board, that's the thing. Like, if you happen to choose to draft the same player KC drafts and he walks, then what? I won't be happy losing Sneed if KC lets him walk because I made that pick. Hell, I might have made that pick earlier than the Chiefs did, I don't remember. But yeah, it's a very similar situation.
[Reply]
Rain Man 01:55 PM 04-28-2023
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I dunno if I'd be happy applying that across the board, that's the thing. Like, if you happen to choose to draft the same player KC drafts and he walks, then what? I won't be happy losing Sneed if KC lets him walk because I made that pick. Hell, I might have made that pick earlier than the Chiefs did, I don't remember. But yeah, it's a very similar situation.
That's one structural weakness that I've never worried about. I didn't want to do the research to figure out which of my picks across the league walked in free agency versus being cut. So we can keep guys who were drafted on other teams regardless of what they do, whereas we've always cut Chiefs who walked. We had to cut the Chiefs early on when we were starting with their roster.

Now that the game is mature, I could see us stopping the rule for the Chiefs leaving. However, if we don't ever lose free agents, can we still pick them up when the Chiefs sign them? It seems like that's double-dipping, but then again my teams aren't really getting stronger over time from what I can tell.

So maybe we no longer lose free agents at all?
[Reply]
kccrow 03:41 PM 04-28-2023
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
That's one structural weakness that I've never worried about. I didn't want to do the research to figure out which of my picks across the league walked in free agency versus being cut. So we can keep guys who were drafted on other teams regardless of what they do, whereas we've always cut Chiefs who walked. We had to cut the Chiefs early on when we were starting with their roster.

Now that the game is mature, I could see us stopping the rule for the Chiefs leaving. However, if we don't ever lose free agents, can we still pick them up when the Chiefs sign them? It seems like that's double-dipping, but then again my teams aren't really getting stronger over time from what I can tell.

So maybe we no longer lose free agents at all?
No, I'd disagree with that.

I think if you spend draft capital (via trade or selection) on a player, you should have the right to make the decision on whether or not to keep him or let him go regardless of what team he is on. We don't lose guys we pick that jump to other teams, it should be no different if they are Chiefs.

I would argue to balance this, changing the rule about Chiefs' cuts. If you did not spend draft capital to acquire a player the Chiefs cut, then you should lose that player. Historically that's been an allowed keep (such as with Justin Houston, etc) since the rules have revolved around free agents that are allowed to just walk.
[Reply]
Kellerfox 10:00 PM 04-28-2023
(Apologies if my post comes across rude - not my intention. I standby my comment that our discussion would work so much better over an NFL sponsored owners retreat… or a good ole fashion happy hour)

So, as I relates to OBJ, I’m going to keep him and certainly won’t object if Rainman does as well. Re-reading your OP Rainman, the only potentially pertinent text/rule I see is “You lose any free agent that the Chiefs lose, but only if they were on the Chiefs' roster when you began playing.” OBJ wasn’t on the Chiefs roster when I started, and I invested draft capital in acquiring him, so to me he fits the implied exclusion in that rule.

To me, he was a draft pick, and I was operating under the assumption at the time (based on my interpretation of the rules) that I would get to keep him even if he left. If I had understood the rules differently, I likely would have drafted a tackle instead of making the trade. Though admittedly, I probably would have taken Tevin Jenkins which would have been a huge flop lol.

As for the other potential adjustments… my vote would be for the following:

1. If you draft a player who was taken by a non-Chiefs team, you can keep them for perpetuity (perpetuity = until you decide to cut them or they retire).

2. If you draft a player who the Chiefs also take, you can also keep them for perpetuity.

Summary: if you draft a player, you keep them regardless.

3. If you trade for a player the Chiefs also trade for, and you use draft picks, you keep the incoming player for perpetuity (ex: our OBJ debate).

4. If you trade for a player the Chiefs trade for, but it’s a player-for-player swap, you lose the incoming player when they are cut or leave in FA (unless you actually drafted the departing player, ex: if the Chiefs traded Creed Humphrey for one year of Justin Jefferson and then let Jefferson walk, I could still keep Jefferson because I personally drafted Humphrey).

6. If a Chief who was on your roster at the start of the game departs (FA or cut) - you lose them.

7. If a Chiefs FA signing you add departs (FA or cut) - you lose them.

Summary: Easy come, easy go.



Aside from rebelling and keeping OBJ, I’m happy to play by whatever rules going forward. I greatly appreciate you orchestrating this game (and the MANY other contributions you make to this board Rainman). Let us know what you think the best rules are for the game at this stage, and I’ll duck in line!
[Reply]
kccrow 10:01 PM 04-29-2023
Chiefs Draft Day Trades
2-63, 4-122, 7-249 to DET for 2-55, 6-194
3-95, 6-217 to CIN for 3-92
4-134, 2024 5th to MIN for 4-119
6-178 to DAL for 2024 5th
[Reply]
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