ChiefsPlanet Mobile
Page 3 of 4
< 123 4 >
Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>Chris Jones and the cap
Direckshun 08:37 AM 11-28-2022
I posted this in another thread. But I figured it makes the most sense in this forum where we get into the nitty gritty a bit more:
I know I'm talking about Brett Veach here, and the cap magic Veach has performed over the years has been nothing short of innovative.

That being said, they're on the verge of extending Chris Jones this offseason. Aaron Donald rakes in $31m/year, and it would shock me if they locked down Chris Jones for less than $28m/year. Honestly Jones may ask to reset the market.

If that's the case, I don't know how you reset the market with Orlando Brown. He either has to come down, or you risk him sitting out when you tag him again.

Tagging him would be the best scenario, if he agrees to play: it would be the cheapest option, and (a.) you could draft a stud tackle in the 1st this year and Eric Fisher him, by letting the established vet man LT for a year while the RT gets acclimated, or (b.) you could extend Brown in the 2024 offseason, allowing you to stagger some of those massive cap hits between him and Jones.

The odds that you sign both of those guys this offseason, and have their big cap hits crash in simultaneously, doesn't seem tenable.
Thoughts?

If Chris Jones asks to reset the market at $32m/year, do you take the deal?
[Reply]
Megatron96 11:28 AM 11-29-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
So was trading Hill the right or wrong decision?

In this case
it was the right one.
[Reply]
JPH83 11:31 AM 11-29-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
So was trading Hill the right or wrong decision?
Think the either/or discussions are fair when there's a couple of HOF players on a team. But it seems like these decisions are often only necessary as a result of some bad players also getting a load of money e.g. Clark. Main thing is limiting those multi year, multi dollar f-ups. Then having 3-4 elite players and good, solid talent around them is entirely doable. In other words, pay Jones, don't pay OBJ what he wants. Then maybe a 2nd contract for a HOF-headed Toney is possible :-)
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:39 AM 11-29-2022
Originally Posted by Superturtle:
Donald is also 3 years older than Jones and was so close to retiring he had the paperwork filled out and ready to file. And he's STILL a fringe top 5 defensive player. Hell, the contract the Rams probably regret significantly more is Ramsey. That dude has been an absolute dumpster fire in big games.
This.
[Reply]
Buehler445 11:44 AM 11-29-2022
Originally Posted by Why Not?:
Arguably the DPOTY. Pay him, I don't care what it costs.
I view it as similar to Hill. Both are elite athletes that are impossible to replace, both are very productive, both are liked in the locker room.

You pay the dude but if he's out he's out.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 12:00 PM 11-29-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
So was trading Hill the right or wrong decision?
If you also trade Jones? The wrong one.

But if trading Hill allows you to keep Jones, it's fine.
[Reply]
RunKC 01:28 PM 11-29-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
So was trading Hill the right or wrong decision?
Not sure how anyone at this point can say it is the wrong decision
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 03:11 PM 11-29-2022
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Not sure how anyone at this point can say it is the wrong decision
Remains to be seen.

Flags fly forever - Tyreek Hill is a MASSIVE reason we have one. And the lack of Tyreek Hill may turn out to be a reason we don't hang another.

The Chiefs don't do much of anything with an eye on regular season records anymore. It's all a question of how things play in the post-season. Can they still be this dynamic in the playoffs? I just don't think we have the answer to that question yet.

We don't have an Iverson that can just go take a bucket when you need it. Sure, we have Shaq (Kelce) and Magic Johnson (Mahomes), but sometimes when shit is going south, you need someone that can just create in space.

We have some guys who can do a little of that, but nobody who can do what Tyreek did so many times.

Ideally we just won't need it. But we won't know until its said and done if we did.

However it turns out, it was a wholly defensible decision. It just may break bad for us anyway.
[Reply]
RunKC 03:45 PM 11-29-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Remains to be seen.

Flags fly forever - Tyreek Hill is a MASSIVE reason we have one. And the lack of Tyreek Hill may turn out to be a reason we don't hang another.

The Chiefs don't do much of anything with an eye on regular season records anymore. It's all a question of how things play in the post-season. Can they still be this dynamic in the playoffs? I just don't think we have the answer to that question yet.

We don't have an Iverson that can just go take a bucket when you need it. Sure, we have Shaq (Kelce) and Magic Johnson (Mahomes), but sometimes when shit is going south, you need someone that can just create in space.

We have some guys who can do a little of that, but nobody who can do what Tyreek did so many times.

Ideally we just won't need it. But we won't know until its said and done if we did.

However it turns out, it was a wholly defensible decision. It just may break bad for us anyway.
I think Veach had 2 reasons for the trade:

1. The defense was just terrible in the secondary minus Sneed and Ward (who we couldn’t keep). We hadn’t made a defensive pick in the first rd since Marcus Peters in 2015 and it showed. It needed a massive overhaul.
McDuffie is such a sticky quality cover corner. Those guys are genuinely hard to find bc truthfully there aren’t many.

2. It’s like Andy says. “You can’t pay everyone”. I think Veach went to Tillis and formulated a plan for Tyreek, Brown Jr (who they offered a big contract to) and Jones. They had a line they could finagle until a certain point and Tyreek crossed that line.

As much as we all love Tyreek, Chris Jones is so much more valuable. And he’s gonna ask for a similar contract after his incredible year.

I think we can all agree that the most valuable positions to fill on a roster are QB, LT and interior pass rusher. It’s so hard to find quality players like that bc they just aren’t available very often.

As much as people dislike Brown Jr, he’s a plus capable LT that doesn’t ruin our offensive production very often. And that’s extremely hard to find. They had a lot of options in the draft the year they traded for Brown Jr. Walker Little, Teven Jenkins, Liam Eichenberg.

None of those guys are LT’s in the NFL. Also did you see that the Penn St LT is going back to school? Makes it that much harder.

They knew it wouldn’t work financially with Tyreek’s $31 million cap hit next year and they needed compensation to build the defense.

It’s understandable why they did it
[Reply]
Dante84 08:40 PM 11-29-2022
Random thought, but it’s pretty crazy that they get to do this as a full time job. They wake up early, get dressed, grab coffee and spend all day looking at different scenarios for current players, different contract scenarios based on performance and projected performance, medical debriefs, draft pick scenarios, free agent negotiations, etc…

Just insane to think someone does this for a living.
[Reply]
Why Not? 09:56 PM 11-29-2022
Originally Posted by Dante84:
Random thought, but it’s pretty crazy that they get to do this as a full time job. They wake up early, get dressed, grab coffee and spend all day looking at different scenarios for current players, different contract scenarios based on performance and projected performance, medical debriefs, draft pick scenarios, free agent negotiations, etc…

Just insane to think someone does this for a living.
Like any job, no matter what anyone thinks of it, I'm sure there a parts that are much more difficult than we will ever be aware of. But, yes, at face value it seems like a cool gig.
[Reply]
Why Not? 10:01 PM 11-29-2022
Originally Posted by Buehler445:
I view it as similar to Hill. Both are elite athletes that are impossible to replace, both are very productive, both are liked in the locker room.

You pay the dude but if he's out he's out.
Overall, I agree. The only thing I would point out is that you could make an argument that Jones is more valuable than Hill in this regard. With Mahomes, a couple of relative JAG-ish guys combined with Kelce and JuJu (who to be totally honest is better than JAG-ish but not necessarily great) are putting up great numbers. Jones is stand alone great and the drop off on the Chiefs pass rush and overall defense would be greater if we lost Jones than the drop off (if any) on offense has been since we lost Tyreek.

Hope I'm making sense there. Tyreek is a great player and I wish a world existed where he was still on the Chiefs but if I had to take the Chiefs with Tyreek and no Jones or the Chiefs with no Tyreek, this WR group and Jones long term, I would choose the later. Which is good since that is the only potentially realistic option.
[Reply]
Buehler445 11:56 PM 11-29-2022
Originally Posted by Why Not?:
Overall, I agree. The only thing I would point out is that you could make an argument that Jones is more valuable than Hill in this regard. With Mahomes, a couple of relative JAG-ish guys combined with Kelce and JuJu (who to be totally honest is better than JAG-ish but not necessarily great) are putting up great numbers. Jones is stand alone great and the drop off on the Chiefs pass rush and overall defense would be greater if we lost Jones than the drop off (if any) on offense has been since we lost Tyreek.

Hope I'm making sense there. Tyreek is a great player and I wish a world existed where he was still on the Chiefs but if I had to take the Chiefs with Tyreek and no Jones or the Chiefs with no Tyreek, this WR group and Jones long term, I would choose the later. Which is good since that is the only potentially realistic option.
Nah I agree.

I’m waaaaay too stupid to say they should draw the line in the sand at $X, only to say they should have a line, much like they did with Hill.
[Reply]
Coogs 06:32 AM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by Hydrae:
I noticed him "throwing money" in his after-sack celebration this last week. My first thought was, he is saying he wants to get PAID.
It was his 10th sack of the season. Reaching 10 on the season was worth $1.25 million in incentive clauses in his deal. So he did get PAID.
[Reply]
Direckshun 10:21 AM 11-30-2022
So, I don't think Chris Jones resets the market with his next contract.

If you stack up the seasons Donald put together prior to his massive deal against the past three years of Jones, it's not even close.

But I do think he's going to crest up to $30m/year.

Honestly, anything shy of resetting the market is a win for Veach here. Jones is completely indispensable for the Chiefs.
[Reply]
Hydrae 03:11 PM 11-30-2022
Originally Posted by Coogs:
It was his 10th sack of the season. Reaching 10 on the season was worth $1.25 million in incentive clauses in his deal. So he did get PAID.
That makes sense and helps me believe he may still be here for a few more years.

Thanks for the info!
[Reply]
Page 3 of 4
< 123 4 >
Up