So there's an article on NFL network saying that Orlando Brown is expected to sign for 6 years $145 mil.
That comes to $24.16 mil/yr and makes him the highest paid offensive lineman in football. It also would give him the 19th highest salary per year in the NFL
How would you feel if that is the contract he ended up signing?
I'm fine with it. He is a top 5 LT and he's only 26 next season. A young great LT is a guy you can't let leave. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
I think this right here is the source of all the back-and-forth.
1) Brown looked worse early than he did later in the year, with some of the reason being Mahomes and a lot of it being him adjusting to a new scheme
2) While Brown DID get beat on pure speed rushes at times, the way he plays can lead to considering a play a LOSS on his part when really it's a neutral snap.
Example: If someone speed rushes against Brown and gets to Mahomes at 9 or 10-yards in the pocket, it's a win for the pass rusher. But if that same pass rusher does an 11- or 12- or 13-yard deep speed rush where Brown surrenders ground and keeps pushing them deeper past the pocket, that is a NEUTRAL snap for Brown and a loss for the rusher. But it can look like the rusher is winning (because he's going to a place the offense is fine with him going to.
So I think it's easy to watch the snap and see the rusher getting around the outside, and chalk it up as a blocking loss with Brown, even when it isn't.
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
I think this right here is the source of all the back-and-forth.
1) Brown looked worse early than he did later in the year, with some of the reason being Mahomes and a lot of it being him adjusting to a new scheme
2) While Brown DID get beat on pure speed rushes at times, the way he plays can lead to considering a play a LOSS on his part when really it's a neutral snap.
Example: If someone speed rushes against Brown and gets to Mahomes at 9 or 10-yards in the pocket, it's a win for the pass rusher. But if that same pass rusher does an 11- or 12- or 13-yard deep speed rush where Brown surrenders ground and keeps pushing them deeper past the pocket, that is a NEUTRAL snap for Brown and a loss for the rusher. But it can look like the rusher is winning (because he's going to a place the offense is fine with him going to.
So I think it's easy to watch the snap and see the rusher getting around the outside, and chalk it up as a blocking loss with Brown, even when it isn't.
And people need to get over this, “Mahomes wants to deep drop and his LT isn’t letting him!!!”
NFL defenses are trying to take away everything Mahomes wants to do. He has to adjust. He has to learn to like stepping up into the pocket, because it makes him more dangerous and lethal.
I think he’s already demonstrated a lot of improvement in that area last year [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
I think this right here is the source of all the back-and-forth.
1) Brown looked worse early than he did later in the year, with some of the reason being Mahomes and a lot of it being him adjusting to a new scheme
2) While Brown DID get beat on pure speed rushes at times, the way he plays can lead to considering a play a LOSS on his part when really it's a neutral snap.
Example: If someone speed rushes against Brown and gets to Mahomes at 9 or 10-yards in the pocket, it's a win for the pass rusher. But if that same pass rusher does an 11- or 12- or 13-yard deep speed rush where Brown surrenders ground and keeps pushing them deeper past the pocket, that is a NEUTRAL snap for Brown and a loss for the rusher. But it can look like the rusher is winning (because he's going to a place the offense is fine with him going to.
So I think it's easy to watch the snap and see the rusher getting around the outside, and chalk it up as a blocking loss with Brown, even when it isn't.
All true.
I zeroed in on watching him first few games and was miffed so stopped.
One things for sure, sports outlets think he's average at best, lol. Then again our o lines rated #9 or #10 with them questioning Niang?
Originally Posted by The Bad Guy:
Good idea. Get your 500 million dollar QB killed because you want to skimp on his key protector.
OBJ by any measure is not an elite LT. Throwing him a check making him the highest paid tackle would be stupid. If he was even a top 10 he would be signed by now and be the highest paid tackle. He isn't a top 10, Veach knows it and so does Andy so there is no way in hell they are giving him that.
He will play on the tag most likely and then they will find another and let some other team be suckers. You think we can't find the same talent in another tackle next year for a decent price? Bullshit. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Red Dawg:
OBJ by any measure is not an elite LT. Throwing him a check making him the highest paid tackle would be stupid. If he was even a top 10 he would be signed by now and be the highest paid tackle. He isn't a top 10, Veach knows it and so does Andy so there is no way in hell they are giving him that.
He will play on the tag most likely and then they will find another and let some other team be suckers. You think we can't find the same talent in another tackle next year for a decent price? Bullshit.
:-) You're so goddamn fucking stupid, man. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Red Dawg:
OBJ by any measure is not an elite LT. Throwing him a check making him the highest paid tackle would be stupid. If he was even a top 10 he would be signed by now and be the highest paid tackle. He isn't a top 10, Veach knows it and so does Andy so there is no way in hell they are giving him that.
He will play on the tag most likely and then they will find another and let some other team be suckers. You think we can't find the same talent in another tackle next year for a decent price? Bullshit.
Originally Posted by RealSNR: :-) You're so goddamn ****ing stupid, man.
If I'm so stupid then why isn't he signed? Tell me genius? He wants too much money and Veach isn't paying a non elite LT like he is the best in the league.
You're fucking stupid for thinking that's not exactly what is happening. If OBJ lowers his price then he will get signed otherwise he plays on the tag. [Reply]
That's what we need more dumbasses in this thread asking asinine questions and then ignoring the answers while the occasional extremely patient poster lays out obvious shit. Then some other dumbass is going to wander in and say HE SUCKS!!
How do I mute this thread it's like a sore tooth I can't stop messing with it [Reply]
Originally Posted by Red Dawg:
If I'm so stupid then why isn't he signed? Tell me genius? He wants too much money and Veach isn't paying a non elite LT like he is the best in the league.
You're fucking stupid for thinking that's not exactly what is happening. If OBJ lowers his price then he will get signed otherwise he plays on the tag.
Chris Jones wasn't a top 10 DT when he was on the tag in the offseason of 2020? Pretty sure he went right up to 24 hours before the deadline to sign his extension.
But nope! He must not have been top 10 at the time, because if he were he would've been signed long before then! [Reply]
Originally Posted by Red Dawg:
If I'm so stupid then why isn't he signed? Tell me genius? He wants too much money and Veach isn't paying a non elite LT like he is the best in the league.
You're ****ing stupid for thinking that's not exactly what is happening. If OBJ lowers his price then he will get signed otherwise he plays on the tag.
His point is accurate and true. Veach's inaction on this front speaks for itself, not to mention we see the games and how he played all year. He is an average to above-average (at best) NFL left tackle, certainly not deserving of highest paid LT or anything in the realm of elite. Cut our losses from surrendering the 1st rounder, get 2 seasons hopefully out of him and move on next off-season if contract demands too unreasonable. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mahomes007:
His point is accurate and true. Veach's inaction on this front speaks for itself, not to mention we see the games and how he played all year. He is an average to above-average (at best) NFL left tackle, certainly not deserving of highest paid LT or anything in the realm of elite. Cut our losses from surrendering the 1st rounder, get 2 seasons hopefully out of him and move on next off-season if contract demands too unreasonable.
I think 16 posts is where you should cut your losses [Reply]
Originally Posted by RealSNR:
And people need to get over this, “Mahomes wants to deep drop and his LT isn’t letting him!!!”
NFL defenses are trying to take away everything Mahomes wants to do. He has to adjust. He has to learn to like stepping up into the pocket, because it makes him more dangerous and lethal.
I think he’s already demonstrated a lot of improvement in that area last year
And saying it's bad that Mahomes has to change the way he plays? I mean, come on guys. 1) it's not (The extremely deep drops and drifts were becoming a predictable, exploitable trait) 2) If the Ts are pushing the DEs WAY wide and way deep in the pocket, that creates a TON of space up front for Mahomes to step up into and escape. Only now he's escaping in a more direct line to positive yards on a scramble, or closer to the action if he throws it.
When you have the speed disadvantage like Mahomes does against LB and DB, moving horizontally is as often a hindrance as it is a boon.
Originally Posted by Mahomes007:
His point is accurate and true. Veach's inaction on this front speaks for itself, not to mention we see the games and how he played all year. He is an average to above-average (at best) NFL left tackle, certainly not deserving of highest paid LT or anything in the realm of elite. Cut our losses from surrendering the 1st rounder, get 2 seasons hopefully out of him and move on next off-season if contract demands too unreasonable.
Originally Posted by Red Dawg:
OBJ by any measure is not an elite LT. Throwing him a check making him the highest paid tackle would be stupid. If he was even a top 10 he would be signed by now and be the highest paid tackle. He isn't a top 10, Veach knows it and so does Andy so there is no way in hell they are giving him that.
You're both way off on this. Deals with franchise players commonly go into the last day or two of the deadline, and many negotiations don't begin in earnest until that point.
COULD it be a sign he wants too much, they're too far apart on value, and he's playing on the tag? Yes. It could. But is not CERTAINLY that by any means.
No matter how much you want it to be.
Originally Posted by Red Dawg:
He will play on the tag most likely and then they will find another and let some other team be suckers. You think we can't find the same talent in another tackle next year for a decent price? Bullshit.
Regarding how easy it is to replace him. Again:
Challenge #1: Name 10 LT in football who are CLEARLY better than him, with as long a track record AND without big durability question marks (Note: Tyron Smith and Terron Armstead are big durability question marks, if you're wondering what I mean.
Challenge #2: Thing long and hard about the acquisition costs of LT. Look at the draft and where the reliable, projectable ones are taken. Look at the success rate even of guys considered elite and worthy of a top 10 pick. Look at what guys are getting in free agency or in a similar situation.
Challenge #3: If he's just "above average" at LT, look at LT around the league and ask how many are elite. Take them out of the equation (there are 3-4 who don't have large injury question marks). And then start comparing Brown to the guys left (Jake Matthews; Taylor Decker). And then look at what they're getting paid.
At the end of it, ask yourself if perhaps you need to recalibrate the economic realities of the T market. [Reply]
The question to ask I guess is why does Mahomes feel like he needs to drift so much
He is not doing it for the hell of it...may be he needs better reads, or he is feeling pressure or because it takes so long for plays downfield to develop...some of it may be on him but some of it isnt [Reply]
