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Originally Posted by keg in kc:
Watching that ending I'm thinking maybe it's set up even more clearly than the books to bring Jon back. Scene one you establish the Mountain's resurrection. Scene two you have Melisandre arrive at Castle Black. Scene three Jon dies. They're too smart for that to be a coincidental sequence of events.
Not only that but his blood spilling out onto the snow. Melisandre is always going on about king's blood and what not.
Maybe that isn't relevant but.. It stuck out to me. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Haha....sure...or it could be Patrick's (from Spongebob) shadow.
Haha, yeah, it's a stretch for sure. I saw another article using a later shot of the blood and claiming it was in the shape of a dragon wing. Eye of the beholder? Wishful thinking? [Reply]
I'm just reading A Clash of Kings now and I read the House of the Undying chapter last night. I noticed the following from the prophecy:
"A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness."
Of course people talk an awful lot about the second sentence referring to Snow, etc. But people have wondered who the "corpse" is in the preceding sentence and suggested a number of candidates. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1813
My question: could it refer to Jon Snow's death, resurrection, and future sailing to . . . somewhere (Hardhome, Meereen, King's Landing?) [Reply]
Originally Posted by manchambo:
I'm just reading A Clash of Kings now and I read the House of the Undying chapter last night. I noticed the following from the prophecy:
"A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright in his dead face, grey lips smiling sadly. A blue flower grew from a chink in a wall of ice, and filled the air with sweetness."
Of course people talk an awful lot about the second sentence referring to Snow, etc. But people have wondered who the "corpse" is in the preceding sentence and suggested a number of candidates. http://www.westeros.org/Citadel/Prophecies/Entry/1813
My question: could it refer to Jon Snow's death, resurrection, and future sailing to . . . somewhere (Hardhome, Meereen, King's Landing?)
I always took the first one to be Victarion Greyjoy, but you never know. Could also be Jon Connington with his greyscale. Those seem the most likely to me. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
...War of the Roses, of course. House York and Lancaster being offshoots of House Plantagenet.
my sister (a huge history buff, especially that era of English history) mentioned to me yesterday that she's pretty sure that GRRmartin is using the war of the roses as a scaffold for this, which... wonder how that would end exactly [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hawk:
I always took the first one to be Victarion Greyjoy, but you never know. Could also be Jon Connington with his greyscale. Those seem the most likely to me.
Those make sense of course, but neither of them is actually a "corpse." A revived Jon might be. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Ebolapox:
my sister (a huge history buff, especially that era of English history) mentioned to me yesterday that she's pretty sure that GRRmartin is using the war of the roses as a scaffold for this, which... wonder how that would end exactly
Yes, I believe Martin himself has mentioned War of the Roses as being one of his "inspirations". Clearly nearly everything there (other than the supernatural stuff) is drawn on some aspect of world history. The Dothraki are Mongols. Westeros is England. The Wall is Hadrian's Wall writ large. The Red Wedding is the Scottish Black Dinner. The Unsullied are an over the top and testicle-free version of Spartan warriors, etc. ad infinitum. [Reply]
Originally Posted by manchambo:
Those make sense of course, but neither of them is actually a "corpse." A revived Jon might be.
The problem with a revived "corpse" Jon is where would he be sailing to? If he gets revived from the dead, then surely it will be for the purpose of fighting the others and he would stay at the wall I would think.
Victarion is a dead man walking. He's on his way to die even if he doesn't know it yet. There are also theories that he died already when the guy was healing his arm. The idea is that the POV chapter (in ADWD) when Victarion is being healed is the only time in all of the books that the POV leaves the character for a short time and goes to a different narrator. In other words, it is a Victarion POV chapter, but for a short time you are not seeing from Victarion's POV and instead are told what is happening elsewhere on the ship. This is highly unusual for GRRM and I have found no other examples of it so far. It is mainly because of this that I think the vision applies to Victarion.
Long book quote:
Spoiler!
They are all the same, these magic men. The mouse warned me of pain as well. "I am ironborn, priest. I laugh at pain. You will have what you require … but if you fail, and my hand is not healed, I will cut your throat myself and give you to the sea."
Moqorro bowed, his dark eyes shining. "So be it."
The iron captain was not seen again that day, but as the hours passed the crew of his Iron Victory reported hearing the sound of wild laughter coming from the captain's cabin, laughter deep and dark and mad, and when Longwater Pyke and Wulfe One-Eye tried the cabin door they found it barred. Later singing was heard, a strange high wailing song in a tongue the maester said was High Valyrian. That was when the monkeys left the ship, screeching as they leapt into the water.
Come sunset, as the sea turned black as ink and the swollen sun tinted the sky a deep and bloody red, Victarion came back on deck. He was naked from the waist up, his left arm blood to the elbow. As his crew gathered, whispering and trading glances, he raised a charred and blackened hand. Wisps of dark smoke rose from his fingers as he pointed at the maester.
"That one. Cut his throat and throw him in the sea, and the winds will favor us all the way to Meereen." Moqorro had seen that in his fires. He had seen the wench wed too, but what of it? She would not be the first woman Victarion Greyjoy had made a widow.
Connington is also a possibility because of his greyscale and that could make him a "corpse" for purposes of Dany's vision, plus the greyscale would match up to the reference to grey sad lips. But I have always felt that Victarion was the best bet for that quote. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hawk:
The problem with a revived "corpse" Jon is where would he be sailing to? If he gets revived from the dead, then surely it will be for the purpose of fighting the others and he would stay at the wall I would think.
Victarion is a dead man walking. He's on his way to die even if he doesn't know it yet. There are also theories that he died already when the guy was healing his arm. The idea is that the POV chapter when Victarion is being healed is the only time in all of the books that the POV leaves the character for a short time and goes to a different narrator. In other words, it is a Victarion POV chapter, but for a short time you are not seeing from Victarion's POV and instead are told what is happening elsewhere on the ship. This is highly unusual for GRRM and I have found no other examples of it so far. It is mainly because of this that I think the vision applies to Victarion.
Long book quote:
Spoiler!
They are all the same, these magic men. The mouse warned me of pain as well. "I am ironborn, priest. I laugh at pain. You will have what you require … but if you fail, and my hand is not healed, I will cut your throat myself and give you to the sea."
Moqorro bowed, his dark eyes shining. "So be it."
The iron captain was not seen again that day, but as the hours passed the crew of his Iron Victory reported hearing the sound of wild laughter coming from the captain's cabin, laughter deep and dark and mad, and when Longwater Pyke and Wulfe One-Eye tried the cabin door they found it barred. Later singing was heard, a strange high wailing song in a tongue the maester said was High Valyrian. That was when the monkeys left the ship, screeching as they leapt into the water.
Come sunset, as the sea turned black as ink and the swollen sun tinted the sky a deep and bloody red, Victarion came back on deck. He was naked from the waist up, his left arm blood to the elbow. As his crew gathered, whispering and trading glances, he raised a charred and blackened hand. Wisps of dark smoke rose from his fingers as he pointed at the maester.
"That one. Cut his throat and throw him in the sea, and the winds will favor us all the way to Meereen." Moqorro had seen that in his fires. He had seen the wench wed too, but what of it? She would not be the first woman Victarion Greyjoy had made a widow.
Connington is also a possibility because of his greyscale and that could make him a "corpse" for purposes of Dany's vision, plus the greyscale would match up to the reference to grey sad lips. But I have always felt that Victarion was the best bet for that quote.
He could be sailing to Hardhome, or eventually to King's Landing. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Hawk:
Hardhome is north of the wall which would be very dangerous and seems counterproductive now. Not sure why he would need to go to King's Landing?
I take it you weren't convinced by my Victarion argument?
To assume the Iron throne.
Victarion is a possibility. As noted, he's not a corpse. [Reply]
