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Washington DC and The Holy Land>Pete Buttigieg has a point: Republicans will call any Democratic nominee a socialist
oaklandhater 04:57 PM 07-18-2019
https://www.kansascity.com/opinion/o...232797167.html

Pete Buttigieg has a point: Republicans will call any Democratic nominee a socialist

BY MELINDA HENNEBERGER

If we ever stop talking about President Donald Trump’s latest racial stylings — and since he’s correct that “a lot of people love it,” he’ll try to delay that day — we will eventually get back to arguing about whether Democrats would have a better chance of replacing him next year with the kind of moderate nominee who might win over independents, or with a blow-the-doors-off progressive likely to turn out every last Democrat.

I’ve been in the former camp, probably because that’s how I’ve seen it done. Also because I’m the “beer summit” type, still thinking we can sit down and work it out. When former Vice President Joe Biden talks about decency, now that’s my idea of intoxicating. And after the last few years, who needs any more thrill rides?

Recently, though, I’ve become convinced that moderate or progressive — centrist or central planning — is not even the right question.

As Pete Buttigieg, the Democratic presidential contender who was in Kansas City this week, said in an interview: “We’re still a bit trapped by patterns of the ‘90s.”

Wow, you know me.

“While it’s always important to appeal to moderates and turn out the base, we live in a moment now where there’s less of a relationship between ideological centrism and appealing to independents,” the mayor of South Bend, Indiana, said.

No argument here.

Why pander to voters who aren’t really even available? So often, independents are undercover or on-the-lam partisans who in the end either support a third-party candidate or fly home to the familiar nest on Election Day.

A Kansas City independent who works as a government consultant described himself to me as a middle-of-the-road voter who above all is looking for civility and willingness to work across the aisle. He might vote for one of the Democrats — which one he’s not sure — but a vote for Trump isn’t out of the question, either. In 2016, he voted for a third-party candidate and yes, he might do that again, too. Conclusion: Democrats, don’t even try pitching to this guy.

Colorado Republican-turned-independent Katherine Redmond is much more politically engaged. She’s the kind of centrist you’d think really might be gettable for the right Democrat. She’d never cast a ballot for Donald Trump — “I can’t as a Christian give him my vote” — but has never voted for a Democratic presidential candidate, either.

“For me, Biden is safe as a Democrat. He’s been a part of the fabric, and I’m not looking for fresh blood in this time, but for experience. I want to test-drive this car a few times before I buy it.”

But would even Biden win her support? “I’d like to see him not backtrack so much. You’re the experienced one,” she’d like to tell him, so don’t cave to criticism from relative newcomers. “That’s where he’d have to go for me.”

A true independent, she’s most likely to repeat what she did in 2016 and vote for some third-party person.

I know a fair number of “Never Trump” Republicans, too; we have a lot in common. But not one of those I know personally is planning to vote for the Democratic nominee, even if it is Biden.

When he changed his mind on the Hyde Amendment and said yes, taxpayers should pay for abortions for low-income women, that’s when they started saying they could never support him after all.

And that’s when I started thinking if it hadn’t been that, it would have been some other last straw that would have ultimately, to their chagrin, made Biden or any other national Democrat a non-option.

Buttigieg is also right when he says that the GOP will tag even the most middle-of-the-road Democratic nominee as a scary radical. Democrats found that out, he says, after co-opting the Republican-born plan that became the Affordable Care Act.

“That was the most conservative intervention you can think of, and as soon as it was adopted, they started calling it socialism,” he said.

Why should Democrats feel they have to choose either x or y on the ideological spectrum when the current president “doesn’t even have an ideology? He has a style, not an ideology.”

The fact that Buttigieg has supporters back in Indiana who voted for him, former President Barack Obama, Trump, and Vice President and former Gov. Mike Pence means they’re open to politicians of very different stripes. Clearly, “what they don’t do is look at how your dot” on the political spectrum “matches their dot.”

He’s arguing that means there’s no paddling back to the safe harbor of a Joe Biden or any other moderate: “A lot of people in our part of the country are ready to burn the house down. We can’t promise politics as usual.”

I haven’t ruled out Biden or another moderate. But what I’d say to Democrats is that instead of wearing yourselves out wondering whether to look left or center, pick the one who makes you feel like you can’t wait to vote. This time, believe that the passionate choice will also be the sensible one. This time, as my daughter used to say when she was little, “Soup yourself.”
[Reply]
DJJasonp 07:37 AM 07-19-2019
Not to get to what-about-ey.....

But - whether you call it socialism or unicornism, the right (and most in the middle for that matter) dont like what these dem candidates are selling.

While I realize primaries go further to left/right, then typically come back towards the middle for the presidential run.......other than maybe Biden, I have no trust in any of them to actually "come back" from where they are now.

That's a far cry from calling someone a nazi or racist.

And while on that subject......racist/nazi has been so overused, it's the new "you're a retard" (means nothing)
[Reply]
listopencil 08:17 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by baitism:
The shoe fits well.




[Reply]
Prison Bitch 08:25 AM 07-19-2019
He shall not be referred to other than BUTT-PLUG
[Reply]
lawrenceRaider 08:26 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by Loneiguana:
Patty gets it.

Why discuss policy when you can just scream socialist knowing full well the republican base doesn't have a clue what it means and just defines it as "things I don't like".

Its super easy. Unfortunately for patty and the republicans though, that kind of lazy campaigning is working less and less as the boomers die off.
Your tribe is constantly trumpeting how they are going to bring socialism to this country.

Now it's a bad thing that we call you socialists?

:-)
[Reply]
Sweet Daddy Hate 08:33 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by Prison Bitch:
He shall not be referred to other than BUTT-PLUG
Correct!
[Reply]
ptlyon 08:36 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by displacedinMN:

I have not heard so many new -ists and -isms as I have the last 4 years.
That ain't no shit
[Reply]
NJChiefsFan27 08:37 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider:
Your tribe is constantly trumpeting how they are going to bring socialism to this country.

Now it's a bad thing that we call you socialists?

:-)
We already have socialist programs in this country and they're overwhelmingly popular. What's a couple more? Besides, even if it gets passed you're free to go back where you came from.
[Reply]
patteeu 08:44 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27:
We already have socialist programs in this country and they're overwhelmingly popular. What's a couple more? Besides, even if it gets passed you're free to go back where you came from.
Socialism is initially appealing to those who don’t learn from history, don’t understand human nature, or are just plain selfish.
[Reply]
lawrenceRaider 08:45 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27:
We already have socialist programs in this country and they're overwhelmingly popular. What's a couple more? Besides, even if it gets passed you're free to go back where you came from.
Which continent? Have ancestry from all of them, including this one.


Besides, only fools willingly give up freedom for the illusion of security.
[Reply]
Loneiguana 08:57 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider:
Your tribe is constantly trumpeting how they are going to bring socialism to this country.

Now it's a bad thing that we call you socialists?

:-)
If you comprehended my post, only aging baby boomers are really buying into the fear of "socialism". That boogeyman doesn't get the traction out of the younger crowds.

Mainly because the younger crowds can get online and see its all bullshit fear mongering anyway.
[Reply]
NJChiefsFan27 08:58 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by patteeu:
Socialism is initially appealing to those who don’t learn from history, don’t understand human nature, or are just plain selfish.
Capitalism is undoubtedly the ideology subscribed to by the most selfish people in our society currently.

The socialist programs I mentioned have been around for decades and decades and have overwhelming support. The same thing would happen with socialized medicine, free state run colleges, etc.
[Reply]
NJChiefsFan27 09:01 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by lawrenceRaider:
Which continent? Have ancestry from all of them, including this one.


Besides, only fools willingly give up freedom for the illusion of security.
Are you one of those "all taxes are theft" nutjobs? Trying to figure out where we draw the line with you between things government should pay for to improve society versus being some kind of infringement on the freedoms of society.
[Reply]
Loneiguana 09:10 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by patteeu:
Socialism is initially appealing to those who don’t learn from history, don’t understand human nature, or are just plain selfish.
Its amazing this talking point still gets any traction, since Republicans have been screaming it at government programs since the 1930's (and earlier) and not a single fear mongering talking point has come true.

Originally Posted by :
But the problem for Will and for modern conservatism is that, as progressivism rose in the 20th century, the United States became the most powerful, productive and dynamic nation in the world. Indeed, after the New Deal came the astonishing American boom of the 1950s and 1960s. After the Great Society came the information revolution, which the United States has dominated more than any other nation. The fact remains that in 2019, the United States is one of the most free, dynamic and innovative countries on the planet. If that is the result of a century of progressive policies, maybe we need more?

The fundamental flaw of modern conservatism is that it is unsure whether America today is a fallen republic or an astonishing success story. This confusion has produced a political crisis among conservatives, which might help explain the rise of Trump.

Ever since the 1930s, conservatives have been promising their flock the rollback of the progressive agenda. They have warned about the dangers of leaving the welfare state intact and pilloried conservative leaders for failing in this crucial task. Yet, despite the Reagan revolution, the Newt Gingrich revolution and the tea party revolution, the welfare state is still standing as strong as ever. Republicans dominate almost every arena of U.S. politics — and the state is bigger than ever. Should we chalk this up to incompetence? More likely, conservatives know that the public actually wants the welfare state and that a modern country could not function today under some libertarian fantasy experiment. Of course, they will never admit this.

In any case, the result is that conservative leaders left their base permanently aggrieved, feeling betrayed and distrustful of any new campaign promises. In recent years, as the fever grew, conservative voters became desperate for someone who had not played this game of bait-and-switch with them. And into this rage walked Trump, who easily toppled the old conservative establishment and rode the frustration with elites all the way to the White House.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.60b0ee0907a6

There is some history for you. Conservatives yelling them same things against socialism for damn near 100 years and their fear mongering has never came to fruition.
[Reply]
Loneiguana 09:17 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27:
Capitalism is undoubtedly the ideology subscribed to by the most selfish people in our society currently.

The socialist programs I mentioned have been around for decades and decades and have overwhelming support. The same thing would happen with socialized medicine, free state run colleges, etc.
I think its time to start fighting fire with fire.

Conservatives want to fundamental change our country and eliminate many programs that Americans support, enjoy, and that offers them protection and security. Conservatives want to change our great country into a failed "free market state" that the world saw happen in Chile from 1973 - 1989.

As history and Chile show, their "100 percent, free market ideas" only lead to slow growth, extreme income inequality, workers earning less, and pollution increasing.

Remember, Conservatives got their chance at a "laboratory experiment" to try out their Chicago School of Economics Libertarian beliefs and it failed remarkable.
[Reply]
patteeu 10:35 AM 07-19-2019
Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27:
Capitalism is undoubtedly the ideology subscribed to by the most selfish people in our society currently.
Ridiculous

Originally Posted by NJChiefsFan27:
The socialist programs I mentioned have been around for decades and decades and have overwhelming support. The same thing would happen with socialized medicine, free state run colleges, etc.
You didn’t mention any particular programs. We don’t need to look beyond popular socialist programs to find out why healthcare costs and college costs have grown much faster than the rate of inflation.
[Reply]
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