Originally Posted by Hammock Parties: And yet, their production was in the same percentile.
This large of a gap does not add up. There is definitely something physically wrong with him.
Show your work.
Surely you're not gonna just start counting sacks and try to argue they were similar players. You have to have more for me here. Pass rush success%, pressure rates, etc...
I can't find where I saw the figures back during draft season and there's no way in hell I'm paying for that !@#$ing Elite package at PFF to get them anymore, but I remember seeing them during draft season and Clark was good, but not elite.
But if you have data to suggest otherwise, I'll listen. [Reply]
Originally Posted by jimidollar:
I believe Sutton has his own problems.
Plenty.
But the idea that Spags was going to come in here with some magic 'simpler, more aggressive scheme!' and fix everything was laughable from the start.
Execution was a big problem last year and of course the players aren't gonna say THEY sucked. And the film doesn't lie so they can't very well say that they were doing what they were supposed to be doing.
So what's their answer - "well yeah, I was in the wrong place, but that's because it was just too hard to figure out where the right place was!"
You have an unreliable narrator when you're listening to players bitch about how hard the scheme was. It's the same thing Ron Parker was doing about the coverage stuff when he was blowing simple zone reads and not bothering to get downfield when a run was called. He was a bag of smashed assholes but wanted to talk about the scheme as though it wasn't his own fault.
Sutton wasn't a good DC and he needed to go. But there's a long track record of Spags not being much of a DC as well - he's not the panacea some imagined. The individual players on this defense need to unfuck themselves and start doing their jobs. Stop trying to blame coaches - you got a pass for that last year even if it wasn't deserved. Now just go !@#$ing play. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Execution was a big problem last year and of course the players aren't gonna say THEY sucked. And the film doesn't lie so they can't very well say that they were doing what they were supposed to be doing.
So what's their answer - "well yeah, I was in the wrong place, but that's because it was just too hard to figure out where the right place was!"
You have an unreliable narrator when you're listening to players bitch about how hard the scheme was. It's the same thing Ron Parker was doing about the coverage stuff when he was blowing simple zone reads and not bothering to get downfield when a run was called. He was a bag of smashed assholes but wanted to talk about the scheme as though it wasn't his own fault.
The funniest thing about Ron Parker last year was that he was resigned BECAUSE he supposedly knew the scheme and could step in at both safety positions AND help the youngsters line up properly/know their assignments/"show youngsters the ropes"... [Reply]
I do like that QB hit stat; usually a large enough sample size to have some predictive value. I think it was pressures that I had locked onto but the hits stat is a solid proxy. And the TFL being pretty heavily in Mack's favor makes some sense as he's generally more of a 'havoc creator' than a strict pass-rusher and I think that's where we get a feel for the real weight of his contributions.
I'd imagine that Clark was getting quite a few more pass-rush reps than Mack because of Mack's ability to move around, but still -- 66 hits is a pretty fair amount. What's he at right now? 2 I think? [Reply]
Yes. Also, I don't see 8 TFL over a 47-game span as being "heavily" in Mack's favor. It could have more to do with teams running the ball a lot more against the Raiders. [Reply]
Ok, he was almost as productive as Mack at rushing the passer, but what about other facets of the game? Over that same period Mack was very clearly the more dominant all around player.
2016-2018
Clark
120 Total Tackles
77 Solo
7 FF
4 Pass Deflection
Mack
198 Total Tackles
152 solo
12 FF
10 PD
So if you want to say he rushed the passer as well as Mack that's fine, but Frank Clark is not Khalil Mack in any other way. Mack is elite in every aspect. FC had the luxury of playing on the 3rd, 14th, and 11th ranked defense in the league during those 3 years and KM was playing on the Raiders for 2 of those seasons. The Raiders were ranked 20th in both 2016 and 2017 and then he went to the Bears and was a big reason why they were the number 1 D last year. Clark has only ever done one thing really well and that is rushing the passer. Mack does everything well. [Reply]
I really don't want to get into whether Clark is Khalil mack. What frustrates the hell out of me is that we could have had Justin Houston, $10m extra dollars, and a first and a second. I don't even think he's better than Houston by a wide margin, let alone $10m plus a first and second. [Reply]