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The Meltdown Lounge>Let's talk about the Baltimore Ravens (Week 2)
TLO 05:28 PM 09-12-2021
Discuss
[Reply]
staylor26 09:11 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by siberian khatru:
Oh thatís bigÖ
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 09:12 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by tredadda:
Might take longer than a year with him because he is still young and has a league MVP. They will give him the benefit of the doubt for longer than they probably should. I was listening to the radio on Tuesday and I almost universally heard everyone blame the Raiders loss on everything but him even though he played like trash.
Eh - been that way his whole career.

Mahomes plays his ass off in the SB and takes heat. Lamar Jackson looks like shit against...I dunno, whatever playoff team he looked like shit against...and every talking head starts with "I don't want to put this game on Lamar..."

They treat him like their special needs cousin. If he had more self-awareness he'd be insulted.
[Reply]
duncan_idaho 09:13 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
CEH did have alot of catches at LSU, but was it really becasue he excelled at it or was it more "their QB threw it a shitload so it was just about what you'd expect"?

I dunno. He is fine with it, I think he's a solid player. But not worth a first at this point.
Well, they had tremendous talent - outstanding OL, excellent WR (Justin Jefferson, Jamarr Chase), best QB in the league - and he was the 3rd option.

But if you watched them much, he caught 55 balls (3.75/game) and they were not just dump offs. Joe Brady had Edwards-Helaire running real routes... wheels. Flats. Angle/arrows. The flat/angle routes were usually true 4-stem routes, with him having the option of continuing to the flat, angling to the middle, hitting the seam, or running a corner route.

He ran those routes smoothly and dynamically. Maybe they don't translate to the NFL - maybe that lack of elite speed plays them down - but it still surprises me we don't see more advanced routes out of CEH in the passing game.
[Reply]
duncan_idaho 09:16 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Oh sweet Jesus.

They need to sign Cam and just send him out there Sunday to keep Lamar from dying. I mean I don't know if Villanueva was as cooked as he looked against the Raiders, but man if he plays like that on Sunday, even Frank Clark could make him look bad.
Might actually be a better matchup for them if KC plays Clark on the right side. I was drooling thinking about Jones bull rushing Villanueva into Jackson's lap over and over and over again.

If I'm Spags, Jones is lined up over Villanueva. Flip Clark to the LE spot if necessary.

Re: Trading Jackson, that's a good point as well. Still have to be AWFULLY sure about the replacement and your job security to pull the trigger, though.
[Reply]
O.city 09:16 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Well, they had tremendous talent - outstanding OL, excellent WR (Justin Jefferson, Jamarr Chase), best QB in the league - and he was the 3rd option.

But if you watched them much, he caught 55 balls (3.75/game) and they were not just dump offs. Joe Brady had Edwards-Helaire running real routes... wheels. Flats. Angle/arrows. The flat/angle routes were usually true 4-stem routes, with him having the option of continuing to the flat, angling to the middle, hitting the seam, or running a corner route.

He ran those routes smoothly and dynamically. Maybe they don't translate to the NFL - maybe that lack of elite speed plays them down - but it still surprises me we don't see more advanced routes out of CEH in the passing game.
Yeah, I'm just kinda rounding to the conclusion that they either don't want him doing it or he can't or something. Andy has always liked to have dudes do that, ie Westrbook who I thought CEH would be, and maybe he gets there.

But not yet.
[Reply]
Chiefspants 09:21 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
CEH averaged over 7 YPC in the SB. The problem was that the run game went out of the window when the Bucs got a big lead early.
He had 2 catches in the SB. Which indicates either a scheme issue (as DJ suggested) or that Patrick and CEH were not in sync during the game.

No one wants to admit this, but Tampa did a good job getting their hands in the faces of our receivers down the field. Quick, intermediate passes or designed plays to CEH seem like that would have been a good options in that situation. But as DJ said, the game got away from us, and there were more pressing issues (like our trash can of a line).

If CEH has one impactful game as a receiver, my concern about this will be completely resolved. He was drafted in large part due to his receiving out of the backfield, and I have big expectations for him to emerge in that capacity. I've never had an issue with him as a running back.
[Reply]
smithandrew051 09:21 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
He's just not a homerun hitter. I think most RBs with big YPC numbers are usually doing the same kind of 3, 4, 1, 5, 2, 9, 4 sorts of patterns CEH is likely to do but then they'll pop off a 40 yarder that gooses that average.
Though I wish we still had him in place of Darrell, you just described Damien Williams to a T.

Speaking of which. Here are Chubbs carries from Sunday:

1. 2 yards
2. 6 yards
3. -1 yard
4. 6 yards
5. 4 yards (TD)
6. 18 yards (TD)

HALF

7. 6 yards
8. 17 yards
9. 4 yards (Fumble)
10. 2 yards
11. 6 yards
12. 7 yards
13. 6 yards
14. 2 yards
15. -2 yards

Keep in mind, thatís behind arguably the best OL in football. It felt way worse than that, but 35 of his 83 came on 2 carries.

YPC total: 5.5 yards
YPC (without the 2 long runs): 3.7 yards

So you are absolutely correct. YPC is absolutely inflated by a few longer runs.

This also dispels the myth that the Browns stopped running the football in the second half.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 09:22 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
Might actually be a better matchup for them if KC plays Clark on the right side. I was drooling thinking about Jones bull rushing Villanueva into Jackson's lap over and over and over again.

If I'm Spags, Jones is lined up over Villanueva. Flip Clark to the LE spot if necessary.

Re: Trading Jackson, that's a good point as well. Still have to be AWFULLY sure about the replacement and your job security to pull the trigger, though.
Oh you're fired. No question there - 3 years after you pull the trigger, maybe only 2, you're shitcanned.

But you're looking at a gallows or a firing squad either way. You wanna throw $40 million at Jackson and bleed out slowly as his athleticism wanes and his supporting cast collapses around him and you fall to 5-11? Because that seems almost inevitable. Or do you want to go ahead and deal him, pray that you managed to get lucky with your new QB and maybe save your job.

The way I see it, keeping Lamar means you're almost certainly fired around the middle/end of that long-term deal. Trading Lamar means you're almost certainly fired in the first couple of years of what WOULD have been that long-term deal....but you might not. You might be able to save it.
[Reply]
O.city 09:23 AM 09-16-2021
That's how most RB's are. It's the same with pass rushers. It comes in bunches.

Those 6 and 7 yard body blows just add up and thats what killed the Chiefs in teh first half in that all those runs seemed to have come on first down.

2nd and 3 in teh NFL is just unwinnable.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 09:26 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by smithandrew051:
Though I wish we still had him in place of Darrell, you just described Damien Williams to a T.

Speaking of which. Here are Chubbs carries from Sunday:

1. 2 yards
2. 6 yards
3. -1 yard
4. 6 yards
5. 4 yards (TD)
6. 18 yards (TD)

HALF

7. 6 yards
8. 17 yards
9. 4 yards (Fumble)
10. 2 yards
11. 6 yards
12. 7 yards
13. 6 yards
14. 2 yards
15. -2 yards

Keep in mind, thatís behind arguably the best OL in football. It felt way worse than that, but 35 of his 83 came on 2 carries.

YPC total: 5.5 yards
YPC (without the 2 long runs): 3.7 yards

So you are absolutely correct. YPC is absolutely inflated by a few longer runs.

This also dispels the myth that the Browns stopped running the football in the second half.
Yeah, I read a study about it for fantasy football like 6-8 years ago. Looking for an 'efficient' back is a fools errand. Just accept that most guys with good rate stats have them because they break long runs. Don't say stuff like "well if you take away his two long carries..." because those two long carries are exactly what separates the top 10 guys from flex plays now that the days of the bellcow back are seemingly behind us.

it just kinda is what it is. And we always knew CEH wasn't a HR hitter so knowing that, I just don't understand why we drafted him in the 1st if we didn't intend to use him heavily in the passing game.
[Reply]
Red Dawg 09:29 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Eh - been that way his whole career.

Mahomes plays his ass off in the SB and takes heat. Lamar Jackson looks like shit against...I dunno, whatever playoff team he looked like shit against...and every talking head starts with "I don't want to put this game on Lamar..."

They treat him like their special needs cousin. If he had more self-awareness he'd be insulted.
Because he's black. They do the same with Watson. He screws up for 3 quarters and they lose but it's everyone else's fault.

Lamar is inconsistent and so is Watson, that's their problem but they get a pass so media can be politically correct Look at what they say about Cam. He hasn't played good for years but the media won't call him crap or say he's done even though he is. He's black and gets a pass.
[Reply]
duncan_idaho 09:30 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Oh you're fired. No question there - 3 years after you pull the trigger, maybe only 2, you're shitcanned.

But you're looking at a gallows or a firing squad either way. You wanna throw $40 million at Jackson and bleed out slowly as his athleticism wanes and his supporting cast collapses around him and you fall to 5-11? Because that seems almost inevitable. Or do you want to go ahead and deal him, pray that you managed to get lucky with your new QB and maybe save your job.

The way I see it, keeping Lamar means you're almost certainly fired around the middle/end of that long-term deal. Trading Lamar means you're almost certainly fired in the first couple of years of what WOULD have been that long-term deal....but you might not. You might be able to save it.
Yeah. So if I'm Eric DeCosta, my choices are:

1) Stick with Lamar, give him the huge deal, hope he improves (knowing he likely won't and it's gonna hamstring me)
2) Trade Lamar, trust myself to do a good enough job replacing him we still win and make the playoffs (knowing that if Lamar goes someone and remains successful/productive, I likely lose my job unless I win the SB).

Personally, I take (2). That at least gives me a chance to control my own destiny.
[Reply]
O.city 09:32 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Yeah, I read a study about it for fantasy football like 6-8 years ago. Looking for an 'efficient' back is a fools errand. Just accept that most guys with good rate stats have them because they break long runs. Don't say stuff like "well if you take away his two long carries..." because those two long carries are exactly what separates the top 10 guys from flex plays now that the days of the bellcow back are seemingly behind us.

it just kinda is what it is. And we always knew CEH wasn't a HR hitter so knowing that, I just don't understand why we drafted him in the 1st if we didn't intend to use him heavily in the passing game.
We're wading into the discussions from last year and I dont' think anyone will wanna do that again, but I just don't understand the CEH pick. I mean I get it, but I guess I should say it still doesn't make sense to me.

But whats done is done.
[Reply]
Hog's Gone Fishin 09:35 AM 09-16-2021
I read Lamar has ONE 300 yard passing game in 38 starts. Can't be true.
[Reply]
Detoxing 09:36 AM 09-16-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Oh thatís bigÖ

[Reply]

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