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Nzoner's Game Room>Why Frank Clark is a problem for the Kansas City Chiefs
Direckshun 08:48 AM 05-18-2021
Yikes:



Summary of the video's arguments -- some of which are argued better than others:

1. Never fully healthy.
2. This chart:



3. We ranked in the bottom 3rd in 2020 in passrush despite dropping major coin along the DL.
4. 6 sacks in 2020 -- there was a 7 game stretch where he had 1, and 2 sacks in the last 10 weeks of the season.
5. He doesn't change the run defense all that much.
6. 2020 postseason was "pedestrian" -- 9.8% pressure rate.
7. All of this despite being slotted next to Chris Jones.
8. As you can see in the above chart, Clark is rarely double teamed.
9. The Chiefs didn't restructure Clark this offseason, because they don't want to make it harder than it needs to be to cut him after 2021 -- saves $13m.
10. 2021 is a make-or-break year for Clark.

The good news is that Jarran Reed, like Chris Jones, is a beast in "sacks created," which should help our edge rush.
[Reply]
staylor26 11:48 AM 05-20-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
Route running and nuances of the position come with time for sure, so maybe he develops that. It's also something that seems to be something guys tend to have or don't have so that's what I was saying works against him.

If you take away touch pass jet sweeps from being passes, would it be outlandish to say his production would be cut in half?
There’s absolutely nothing about his athleticism and skill set that says he can’t get better as a route runner. The “tend to have or not have” part applies to guys that have been playing the position for a while, not guys that are still learning it.

Again, I’ve already acknowledged that guys like Lockett were more polished coming out. That’s obvious. It also speaks to how much room he has to grow, and just how naturally gifted he is as well.
[Reply]
O.city 11:48 AM 05-20-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Why would you do that? It's actually an advantage matchup-wise that he's good at that.

Do we dock Deebo Samuel or guys like that for being runners too?
No, not at tall. I think it's great to have that ability.

But when comparing him to a guy like Lockett who's a great route runner and excels in that part of the game he just comes up a bit differently.
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:50 AM 05-20-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
There’s literally nothing about his athleticism and skill set that says he can’t get better as a route runner.

Again, I’ve already acknowledged that guys like Lockett were more polished coming out. That’s obvious. It also speaks to how much room he has to grow, and just how naturally gifted he is as well.
He has natural gifts that guys like Lockett simply don't have. If he can get the football stuff down, he could be special. That's the upside.
[Reply]
O.city 11:51 AM 05-20-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
There’s literally nothing about his athleticism and skill set that says he can’t get better as a route runner.

Again, I’ve already acknowledged that guys like Lockett were more polished coming out. That’s obvious. It also speaks to how much room he has to grow, and just how naturally gifted he is as well.
It's more than "skill set" though. Alot of it is feel and mental processing. Which we have no clue about in terms of his ability there.

I've always felt like that stuff is kind of innate. Similar to accuracy for a QB. I think you can improve on it a bit in the margins, but if you aren't naturally that way it makes it pretty capped.

Tyreek just has a natural feel for shit thats uncanny. It's also why he's gonna end up being a HOF'er.
[Reply]
O.city 11:53 AM 05-20-2021
As per your edit, yeah guys who have played it longer have developed those things. I'm sure it's arguable that guys that get into it later have a tougher time developing it.
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:59 AM 05-20-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
It's more than "skill set" though. Alot of it is feel and mental processing. Which we have no clue about in terms of his ability there.

I've always felt like that stuff is kind of innate. Similar to accuracy for a QB. I think you can improve on it a bit in the margins, but if you aren't naturally that way it makes it pretty capped.

Tyreek just has a natural feel for shit thats uncanny. It's also why he's gonna end up being a HOF'er.
Tyreek Hill is a generational player and a future HOFer. He's not a valid comparison for nearly anybody in the NFL, let alone Hardman.
[Reply]
O.city 12:00 PM 05-20-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Tyreek Hill is a generational player and a future HOFer. He's not a valid comparison for nearly anybody in the NFL, let alone Hardman.
Yes, which is why I didn't mean to imply that.

If thats anyone's expectation for Hardman, it won't happen.
[Reply]
htismaqe 12:01 PM 05-20-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
Yes, which is why I didn't mean to imply that.

If thats anyone's expectation for Hardman, it won't happen.
If that's the expectation for DK Metcalf, who is the guy Hardman most often gets compared to, that's still not fair to Metcalf. Hill is that good.
[Reply]
O.city 12:04 PM 05-20-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
If that's the expectation for DK Metcalf, who is the guy Hardman most often gets compared to, that's still not fair to Metcalf. Hill is that good.
DK is big and strong and runs super fast. I don't think he's really that developed as a WR for what we need at the #2 here.

Honestly, I'm thinking I'd rather see Hill used more in that intermediate and short chain moving stuff when needed and let Hardman play the X. He seems to be or could do basically what Desean did for Andy.
[Reply]
Rausch 03:19 PM 05-20-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:

Honestly, I'm thinking I'd rather see Hill used more in that intermediate and short chain moving stuff when needed and let Hardman play the X.
I dont' know why we don't ever have Hill just run some quick slants or play him in the slot on 3rd down. Hill can play all 3 and no one is keeping up with him as far as acceleration and change of direction...
[Reply]
Valiant 05:03 PM 05-20-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Frank Clark counts $25M against the cap this year and it goes up to almost $27M next year.

Just to put that in perspective, it's the highest cap hit on the Chiefs and the highest cap hit of any DE in the NFL. Demarcus Lawrence at #2 has a cap hit of $800K less than Clark. Joey Bosa at #3 has a cap hit of FIVE MILLION less than Clark.

And for even more perspective, Clark has the 8th highest cap hit in the NFL among ALL players at any position. The only players with higher cap hits are ALL QB's.

At the end of the day, the cap is something teams can work around when players are paid reasonably. Frank Clark's contract is no longer reasonable, especially considering his production.
How many sacks did bosa have last year?
[Reply]
Titty Meat 05:12 PM 05-20-2021
Originally Posted by Valiant:
How many sacks did bosa have last year?
Oof you are making a mistake by just looking st numbers. Bosa played in 9 games still had 7.5 sacks and unlike Clark is 1 of the best pass rushers in the game
[Reply]
htismaqe 05:12 PM 05-20-2021
Originally Posted by Valiant:
How many sacks did bosa have last year?
7.5 in 10 starts (12 appearances)
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