But I see a lot of parallels to the Hill situation. Unquestionably elite player surrounded by JAGs. Potential huge haul in draft capital as well as salary cap relief.
Jones plus whatever dudes isn't getting it done. We won't be drafting in position to properly re-stock LT or DE if we keep him, and we can't afford top of the market replacements.
Maybe we should move him. What kind of haul do you think we could get? [Reply]
Originally Posted by O.city:
So, we're gonna trade our best defensive difference maker, maybe the best DT in the league, to get more weapons to help in shootout games.
Seems a little chicken and egg thing, but I'm down for whatever.
KC has one of the highest paid DL's in the league and not sure they have much to show for it. Very little pressure applied to the likes of Brady, Allen, & Burrow through the years. We'll see if they can have a much better game this weekend. I think they're going to need a great defensive performance to win. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
And the most critical takeaway of the Bills/Bengals game was DJ Reader, IMO.
Reader is really REALLY good and when he's on the field, so is that Bengals defense.
Take Reader away and they're just not that dangerous a unit. He makes an enormous difference for them.
And he STILL doesn't make as big a difference as Chris Jones does for the Chiefs.
The problem is you can scheme Jones out of wrecking your game, because nobody else can win one on one.
I have hopes for Karlaftis, but he had a quiet week.
The Nnadi and Saunders sacks were unblocked, probably due to missing assignments because they were so worried about Jones, so there's that.
I love Jones, and would love to see him stay a Chief forever, I just don't know that it's really for the best or not. I can see a legit argument either way. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
The problem is you can scheme Jones out of wrecking your game, because nobody else can win one on one.
I have hopes for Karlaftis, but he had a quiet week.
The Nnadi and Saunders sacks were unblocked, probably due to missing assignments because they were so worried about Jones, so there's that.
I love Jones, and would love to see him stay a Chief forever, I just don't know that it's really for the best or not. I can see a legit argument either way.
I mean - maybe.
But scheming Jones out of wrecking your game is going to take at LEAST two of your offensive linemen.
That's like saying "well why don't we trade Kelce because you can scheme him out of the gameplan..."
Sure, but at what cost? And at the risk of repeating an exchange I'm pretty sure we've already had, it's just sooooooo much easier to find a viable complementary rusher than it is a force multiplier like Jones.
I mean shit, we're right this very minute pissed about Arden Key rolling up on Mahomes (and then giving Henne a shot) and we could've had him for asswipe money.
The problem with having mediocre teammates around Jones isn't Jones. Frankly that problem is Clark but I think that's a sufficiently dead horse at this point. [Reply]
I was firmly in support of trading Chris Jones but I think I've moved to be firmly in support of adding another penetrating DT right next to him. Give me two guys that can rape face up the middle.
I WANT JEVON HARGRAVE. Badly. Extend Jones and pay Hargrave Clark's money. To note, no I don't see Philly using the tag on him.
Give me a speed rusher opposite Karlaftis and I'll be dancing a jig. I really like Derick Hall as a guy that probably won't be a 1st round player.
I see this as the best way to truly enhance the pass rush immediately. You can't double two DTs and either will make you pay dearly. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I was firmly in support of trading Chris Jones but I think I've moved to be firmly in support of adding another penetrating DT right next to him. Give me two guys that can rape face up the middle.
I WANT JEVON HARGRAVE. Badly. Extend Jones and pay Hargrave Clark's money. To note, no I don't see Philly using the tag on him.
Give me a speed rusher opposite Karlaftis and I'll be dancing a jig. I really like Derick Hall as a guy that probably won't be a 1st round player.
I see this as the best way to truly enhance the pass rush immediately. You can't double two DTs and either will make you pay dearly.
Hargrave is just such a one-trick pony. And he really has been his entire career so it's not something I'm willing to chalk up to scheme.
The guy just doesn't give a fuck about run defense and that's an awfully hard thing to stomach at DT, especially when ideally you want to keep Jones more free to attack so you need a pretty responsible complement to him.
Don't get me wrong, I'll happily weight interior pass rush over run-stopping ability at DT2, but I don't think you can put a guy there who's just actively AWFUL against the run.
Could I talk you into Dalvin Tomlinson instead? He's a credible interior pass rusher who's actually sound against the run. If he costs a similar amount as Hargrave, I think that's the direction I'd go. And probably see if Andrew Billings can be had on another short-term deal for minimal outlay to replace Nnadi. [Reply]
I used to be on board with testing the market for CJ but at this point I don’t see how it can go through. Reek was let go just so that there could be cap to keep Jones and more. He’a legitamitely a top 5 pass rusher in the league and there’s argument for top 3.
We finally have a threatening pass rush for the first time in nearly a decade and he’s the key reason behind it. There aren’t many things that are worth a tier 1 contract but a dominant pass rusher is, especially when it’s the best interior rusher in the league. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Hargrave is just such a one-trick pony. And he really has been his entire career so it's not something I'm willing to chalk up to scheme.
The guy just doesn't give a fuck about run defense and that's an awfully hard thing to stomach at DT, especially when ideally you want to keep Jones more free to attack so you need a pretty responsible complement to him.
Don't get me wrong, I'll happily weight interior pass rush over run-stopping ability at DT2, but I don't think you can put a guy there who's just actively AWFUL against the run.
Could I talk you into Dalvin Tomlinson instead? He's a credible interior pass rusher who's actually sound against the run. If he costs a similar amount as Hargrave, I think that's the direction I'd go. And probably see if Andrew Billings can be had on another short-term deal for minimal outlay to replace Nnadi.
He is more of a one-trick pony but it's not like we have world-beaters against the run as it is. It's mostly a passing league and the teams we have to get through in the playoffs, especially the AFC, are passing teams. You're going after the larger percentage (60% or so) of plays and the bulk of overall yards.
I'd much rather have Hargrave in FA. I'd hope to get a guy like Keeanu Benton in the draft to be the Tomlinson type. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Hargrave is just such a one-trick pony. And he really has been his entire career so it's not something I'm willing to chalk up to scheme.
The guy just doesn't give a **** about run defense and that's an awfully hard thing to stomach at DT, especially when ideally you want to keep Jones more free to attack so you need a pretty responsible complement to him.
Don't get me wrong, I'll happily weight interior pass rush over run-stopping ability at DT2, but I don't think you can put a guy there who's just actively AWFUL against the run.
Could I talk you into Dalvin Tomlinson instead? He's a credible interior pass rusher who's actually sound against the run. If he costs a similar amount as Hargrave, I think that's the direction I'd go. And probably see if Andrew Billings can be had on another short-term deal for minimal outlay to replace Nnadi.
Yes you could, mentioned him and I think Billings on another thread here. Probably cheaper and more rounded. [Reply]
The thing I am thinking about is there is likely to be a lot of rookies wanting new deals in the next few years.
Sneed, Gay, Bolton, Creed, Smith, Toney. We need to think about who we do and don't want to keep and that will play into the thoughts of Veech. [Reply]
Originally Posted by kccrow:
He is more of a one-trick pony but it's not like we have world-beaters against the run as it is. It's mostly a passing league and the teams we have to get through in the playoffs, especially the AFC, are passing teams. You're going after the larger percentage (60% or so) of plays and the bulk of overall yards.
I'd much rather have Hargrave in FA. I'd hope to get a guy like Keeanu Benton in the draft to be the Tomlinson type.