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Patteeu Memorial Political Forum>911 was an inside job.
Taco John 12:06 AM 02-09-2006
After watching this, I am once and for all convinced that it was an inside job...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...81991288263801


The evidence is way too strong.
[Reply]
'Hamas' Jenkins 05:13 PM 02-10-2006
A 767 is about 20% bigger than a 707 which the original contractor said that the buildings could withstand an impact from. A 707 does have a faster cruising speed overall. It would be interesting ot see what the difference in momentum is btw the two impacts.
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banyon 05:15 PM 02-10-2006
An Overhead shot of the skidding plane marks...



and a normal plane crash skidding through a field of grass


[Reply]
Donger 05:17 PM 02-10-2006
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
A 767 is about 20% bigger than a 707 which the original contractor said that the buildings could withstand an impact from. A 707 does have a faster cruising speed overall. It would be interesting ot see what the difference in momentum is btw the two impacts.
A 707 impact, yes. But not a 707 impact at full speed.
[Reply]
Chiefs Express 05:35 PM 02-10-2006
Originally Posted by banyon:
An Overhead shot of the skidding plane marks...



and a normal plane crash skidding through a field of grass

Where are the wings? Where are the engines? They can't be small pieces scattered about or burned up by fire. Where are the marks made by the wings? What color was the black box?
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banyon 05:37 PM 02-10-2006
Here's what airplane wings did to the WTC tower...


And here's what they didn't do at the Pentagon.



undamaged windows...

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Chiefs Express 05:47 PM 02-10-2006
Originally Posted by banyon:
Here's what airplane wings did to the WTC tower...


And here's what they didn't do at the Pentagon.



undamaged windows...
Do you see pictures? All I see is red x's.
[Reply]
banyon 05:51 PM 02-10-2006
yeah I see pictures. in your post too.
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Chiefs Express 06:10 PM 02-10-2006
Originally Posted by banyon:
yeah I see pictures. in your post too.
I don't see them so the discussion regarding them is ended.
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banyon 07:22 PM 02-10-2006
link for pictures:http://guardian.150m.com/pentagon/pentagon-details.htm

originally printed in the Guardian
[Reply]
Chiefs Express 08:00 PM 02-10-2006
Originally Posted by banyon:
link for pictures:http://guardian.150m.com/pentagon/pentagon-details.htm

originally printed in the Guardian
I read the article and checked out your pictures.

What I see is a building (Pentagon) with the outer shell gone where most of the witness marks might be found. The picture of the WTC with the witness marks was a totally differently constructed building.

There is no way to determine if the wings impacted the fasad as it is missing. The witness marks (the blue ones)talked about in the sketch would be in a position to shear the wings back and apparently not off.

If you look at the gray areas of damage it is probable that the plane impacted at the angle shown and the wings did not enter the building as you suspect.

From what I see there isn't enough evidence to claim that it was made by a missile as someone inferred earlier. Besides a missile would not have detonated as it entered the building and then continued on with kinetic energy. It would have been blown apart at that point. Something with mass entered the wall and continued through. If a missile had of been what hit with a delayed fuse there would not have been a fireball at the entry point and the damage further into the building would have been more substantial than the outer walls damage.
[Reply]
Logical 08:27 PM 02-10-2006
Originally Posted by 'Hamas' Jenkins:
A 747 is bigger than both a 757 and 767. It's the largest airliner currently in service.
Minor correction, it is the largest US airliner currently in service. There is now a larger Airbus 380 which has a capacity of 555 to 840 passengers depending on how it is configured.
[Reply]
Logical 08:27 PM 02-10-2006
Originally Posted by Baby Lee:
This thread reminds me, has anyone presented a compelling case that our very own Vlad is NOT the Zodiac Killer?

:-)
:-)
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Logical 08:29 PM 02-10-2006
Originally Posted by Taco John:
No problem... On July 28th, 1945, a B52 Bomber lost in the fog crashed into the 79th floor of the Empire state building. The plane exploded inside the building. How do you think that turned out?
Well obviously the Empire State Building collapsed, King Kong cried that day.
[Reply]
Hydrae 08:32 PM 02-10-2006
Let me just say that this is one of the more entertaining threads we have had in a while. Thanks Taco. For a stinking Browncow fan you can bring up some interesting talking points.

I am glad to see that someone else has corrected the misspeak in the video about the B25 that flew into the Empire State Building at the end of WWII.

There are aspects of this whole thing that bother me. I think some of the questions raised by the conspiracy theorists are legitimate and wish there was an easy way to prove or disprove them. I think the one that bothers me the most though is the one Banyan has been talking about towards the end of the discussion. Namely, why not release at least one of the three different tapes from around the Pentagon? If nothing else just to shut the conspiracy people up. :-)

At the same time, there are problems as have been brought up many times here with things like the number of people who would need to be involved that have kept their mouths shut for over 4 years now.

Interesting side note, I happened upon a new show (pretty sure it is new) on History channel last night called "Declassified." The episode last night was about Castro and was pretty interesting. Some of the things they brought out were not very complimentary of the USA and how they handled the Bay of Pigs and various other attempts to remove Castro from power. I do not have direct quotes from the show (tried looking on thier website but since the show is in the past now, there is no record) but there were several attributed to declassified documents quoting both Ike and JFK in discussing how to get Castro out of power. There was one in particular that struck me since I had been reading the first part of this thread earlier in the evening. That was from Ike saying that if need be "we should manufacture a reason to invade Cuba." This is not moonbat speak, this is from documents at the time that were buried for a couple of decades. Given this, I have no problem with believing that our government is capable of pulling something like this off.

And for a final shot, ultra moonbat thought of the night (yes, after I :-) ). What kind of people were the most common in the WTC? Jews? Get rid of a problem people (no, this is not a real thought of mine, just want to clarify that), energize the public behind whatever cause you want to promote and get to go finish what daddy neglected to finish in Gulf War I. :-) :-)
[Reply]
banyon 08:46 PM 02-10-2006
Originally Posted by Chiefs Express:
I read the article and checked out your pictures.

What I see is a building (Pentagon) with the outer shell gone where most of the witness marks might be found. The picture of the WTC with the witness marks was a totally differently constructed building.

There is no way to determine if the wings impacted the fasad as it is missing. The witness marks (the blue ones)talked about in the sketch would be in a position to shear the wings back and apparently not off.

If you look at the gray areas of damage it is probable that the plane impacted at the angle shown and the wings did not enter the building as you suspect.

From what I see there isn't enough evidence to claim that it was made by a missile as someone inferred earlier. Besides a missile would not have detonated as it entered the building and then continued on with kinetic energy. It would have been blown apart at that point. Something with mass entered the wall and continued through. If a missile had of been what hit with a delayed fuse there would not have been a fireball at the entry point and the damage further into the building would have been more substantial than the outer walls damage.
Well thanks for at least looking. But your post doesn't resolve my dilemma (and I'm sure you thought it would :-) ):

Either:
1) the building should be damaged from contact with the wings (like the WTC picture). The windows shouldn't be intact.

or

2) the wings should be visible laying in some large chunks outside of the Pentagon.

As for missiles not being able to penetrate barriers, we've been building bunker busting bombs and missiles for years

http://www.softwar.net/agm86.html


The Boeing air launched cruise missile (ALCM) uses the same engine and similar guidance systems as the BGM-109 Tomahawk. The USAF originally intended the ALCM as a nuclear strike weapon but has since modified the A model into conventional warhead B models.

The new B models have extended range fuel tanks and larger warhead capacity than the older nuclear A models. The B model is 30% longer and has a 25 degree wing sweep. The B model can be equipped with a variety of conventional and unconventional warheads including non-lethal energy warheads such as High Frequency RF, EMG, or microwave generators designed to knock out enemy electronics.

The variety of warheads has also served to confuse USAF target planners. One 1997 strike of "fragmentary" warhead equipped AGM-86Bs was targeted at an Iraqi hardened bunker. The fragmentary warheads exploded harmlessly outside the bunker, causing no damage. A second strike of a bunker buster 1,000+ pound AGM-86B had to be targeted against the Iraqi bunker to destroy it.

The U.S. used about 90 AGM-86B Air Launched Cruise missiles (ALCM) during Desert Fox. All the USAF launched ALCM cruise missiles were Block 1 types equipped with heavy conventional warheads for bunker busting. The bunker busters are equipped with a rocket assisted booster for added penetration.

The U.S. military is scrambling to replace the highly valuable robot missiles but the Air Force has opted not to purchase new units. Instead, the USAF is upgrading leftover inventories of nuclear B models.

The USAF bought only 200 of the heavy conventional ALCM missiles and has only enough on hand for one more Desert Fox like attack. The firing of 90 for Desert Fox has left the Air Force little choice but to convert 90 more of a remaining 130 formerly nuclear tipped missiles into bunker busters.


The missile theory better explains the lack of plane marks through the grass IMHO.
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