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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>Team free agents 2023: pay or draft to replace?
RunKC 04:09 PM 09-16-2022
Orlando Brown Jr. T KC UFA Market Value
JuJu Smith-Schuster WR KC UFA -
Carlos Dunlap DE KC UFA -
Derrick Nnadi DT KC UFA -
Andrew Wylie T KC UFA -
Chad Henne QB KC UFA -
Ronald Jones II RB KC UFA -
Michael Burton FB KC UFA -
Blake Bell TE KC UFA -
Jerick McKinnon RB KC UFA -
Mecole Hardman WR KC UFA Market Value
Geron Christian T KC UFA -
Deon Bush S KC UFA -
Juan Thornhill S KC UFA -
Elijah Lee OLB KC UFA -
Justin Watson WR KC UFA -
Khalen Saunders DT KC UFA -
Chris Lammons CB KC RFA -
Tommy Townsend P KC RFA -
Tershawn Wharton DE KC RFA -
Jack Cochrane LB KC ERFA -
Rashad Fenton CB KC UFA -
Joe Fortson TE KC ERFA -
Shane Buechele QB KC ERFA -
Prince Tega Wanogho T KC ERFA -
Nick Allegretti G KC UFA
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RunKC 08:53 AM 09-20-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
They traded the elite HOF'er so they could load up with #2 type guys and draft picks. This is what you get, what everyone wanted by not "overpaying hill".

So yeah, draft and develop and keep around some of these dudes. There won't be a single anchor, it's all tied together.
Thatís life though. With Tyreek we struggled against cover 2 which we will surely see more of. It was needed to get the draft picks, especially since our last 1st rd defender was Marcus Peters years ago.

I think we need to keep building our pass rush and get good WR prospects early. Maybe we can get a quality DE for a good but not expensive price and then draft a WR rd 1 and then pass rusher 2nd rd?

Iím looking at the Bills and man youíre gonna need a good 4 man rush to beat Allen. Thatís the key IMO
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O.city 09:05 AM 09-20-2022
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Thatís life though. With Tyreek we struggled against cover 2 which we will surely see more of. It was needed to get the draft picks, especially since our last 1st rd defender was Marcus Peters years ago.

I think we need to keep building our pass rush and get good WR prospects early. Maybe we can get a quality DE for a good but not expensive price and then draft a WR rd 1 and then pass rusher 2nd rd?

Iím looking at the Bills and man youíre gonna need a good 4 man rush to beat Allen. Thatís the key IMO
You're also gonna need to score points.

Force multipliers like Tyreek make things easier for everyone. Aint got that now, so no point worrying about it. but you want a quality DE, gonna have to pay.

They need to go get an ass kicker at DE opposite George. Draft some WR help early I guess, I dunno.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 09:16 AM 09-20-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
You're also gonna need to score points.

Force multipliers like Tyreek make things easier for everyone. Aint got that now, so no point worrying about it. but you want a quality DE, gonna have to pay.

They need to go get an ass kicker at DE opposite George. Draft some WR help early I guess, I dunno.
May just need to go find the highest impact player you can find wherever you can find him.

So if that's Jack Conklin to lock down RT for the foreseeable future, so be it. Maybe it's Bradley Chubb if he can stay healthy for a season. Or Yannick Ngakoue. Hell, maybe it turns out to be JJSS or even Hardman.

Just keep finding good players and figure out how to use them.
[Reply]
RunKC 09:18 AM 09-20-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
You're also gonna need to score points.

Force multipliers like Tyreek make things easier for everyone. Aint got that now, so no point worrying about it. but you want a quality DE, gonna have to pay.

They need to go get an ass kicker at DE opposite George. Draft some WR help early I guess, I dunno.
We will but the main problem was Gabe Davis running wide open for multiple scores the last time we played. That just canít happen and they worked damn hard to ensure that.

The defense this year isnít great but it looks a lot faster and hungrier than last year. It looks like they are making teams work for their points rather then ďbend but donít breakĒ.

But yes Iím all for getting a FA DE and using a 1st on a WR then using a 2nd on another pass rusher (interior) and the rest on DBís and OL
[Reply]
O.city 09:31 AM 09-20-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
May just need to go find the highest impact player you can find wherever you can find him.

So if that's Jack Conklin to lock down RT for the foreseeable future, so be it. Maybe it's Bradley Chubb if he can stay healthy for a season. Or Yannick Ngakoue. Hell, maybe it turns out to be JJSS or even Hardman.

Just keep finding good players and figure out how to use them.
They're gonna have to go cheap at RT methinks if they wanna keep the interior together. Then you've got OBJ out there, not sure what other options there are.

I wouldn't be opposed to Chubb, kinda like the kid from New Orleans better but either works.

It just seems like it's endless fucking holes. We plug the defensive backfield up, the RT spot just springs open like a geyser.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 09:37 AM 09-20-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
They're gonna have to go cheap at RT methinks if they wanna keep the interior together. Then you've got OBJ out there, not sure what other options there are.

I wouldn't be opposed to Chubb, kinda like the kid from New Orleans better but either works.

It just seems like it's endless fucking holes. We plug the defensive backfield up, the RT spot just springs open like a geyser.
That's the idea. The NFL doesn't want super teams or a set and forget dynasty.

Veach had two 'easy' years after he came on board and the cap had been cleaned out with Mahomes, Jones, Kelce, Hill and Schwartz on well under-market deals. So he can either find himself another couple of HoF caliber players in the draft or he's just gonna have to grind for the next decade+.

That's how it was designed...
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 09:46 AM 09-20-2022
Originally Posted by RunKC:
We will but the main problem was Gabe Davis running wide open for multiple scores the last time we played. That just canít happen and they worked damn hard to ensure that.

The defense this year isnít great but it looks a lot faster and hungrier than last year. It looks like they are making teams work for their points rather then ďbend but donít breakĒ.

But yes Iím all for getting a FA DE and using a 1st on a WR then using a 2nd on another pass rusher (interior) and the rest on DBís and OL
I don't know that the WR class is going to be as good this year. There is likely to be another 5-6 WRs that go in the first but maybe 3 that seem on pace to yield a true 'first round grade'?

Kayshon Boutte and Jaxson Smith-Njigba seem like 1st round guys but I figure they're top 15 picks at worst; potentially top 10. Then you're looking someone undersized like Downs, a guy from a weak program like Jarrett, a more niche player like Quentin Johnston.

Dunno - doesn't feel like the board is gonna be really favorable for us at the back of the first. Feels like DL will be the better talent pool there this year.

Man, Michael Pittman or Tee Higgins over MEH would sure look incredible right now. Gabriel Davis over Lucas Niang. Oh well - is what it is. It's not like we took Damon Arnette over Justin Jefferson or anything...
[Reply]
O.city 09:56 AM 09-20-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I don't know that the WR class is going to be as good this year. There is likely to be another 5-6 WRs that go in the first but maybe 3 that seem on pace to yield a true 'first round grade'?

Kayshon Boutte and Jaxson Smith-Njigba seem like 1st round guys but I figure they're top 15 picks at worst; potentially top 10. Then you're looking someone undersized like Downs, a guy from a weak program like Jarrett, a more niche player like Quentin Johnston.

Dunno - doesn't feel like the board is gonna be really favorable for us at the back of the first. Feels like DL will be the better talent pool there this year.

Man, Michael Pittman or Tee Higgins over MEH would sure look incredible right now. Gabriel Davis over Lucas Niang. Oh well - is what it is. It's not like we took Damon Arnette over Justin Jefferson or anything...
The Niang one hurts because he seems like he's potentially a good or atleast adequate RT for cheap.

CEH seems to atleast be playing decently this season, so that helps, but damn.
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htismaqe 09:59 AM 09-20-2022
Niang is a lost cause. Heís not demonstrably better than Wylie and heís always hurt.
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JPH83 10:19 AM 09-20-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I don't know that the WR class is going to be as good this year. There is likely to be another 5-6 WRs that go in the first but maybe 3 that seem on pace to yield a true 'first round grade'?

Kayshon Boutte and Jaxson Smith-Njigba seem like 1st round guys but I figure they're top 15 picks at worst; potentially top 10. Then you're looking someone undersized like Downs, a guy from a weak program like Jarrett, a more niche player like Quentin Johnston.

Dunno - doesn't feel like the board is gonna be really favorable for us at the back of the first. Feels like DL will be the better talent pool there this year.

Man, Michael Pittman or Tee Higgins over MEH would sure look incredible right now. Gabriel Davis over Lucas Niang. Oh well - is what it is. It's not like we took Damon Arnette over Justin Jefferson or anything...
Think there's a slim possibility we can pick up someone like Quentin Johnston but agree DL is looking much bettter for us - but I suspect it's going to be DT and it'll just be how much we want that above a riskier DE/OT/WR prospect. I'd love a solid DE or OT but realistically our DL needs support all across it, I really wouldn't hate it we drafted a DT late in the first.

There's so many what ifs. What if we'd snagged Travis Jones this year, that one stung but he's getting no snaps on a loaded Ravens DL so who knows.
[Reply]
kccrow 05:47 PM 09-20-2022
Originally Posted by JPH83:
Think there's a slim possibility we can pick up someone like Quentin Johnston but agree DL is looking much bettter for us - but I suspect it's going to be DT and it'll just be how much we want that above a riskier DE/OT/WR prospect. I'd love a solid DE or OT but realistically our DL needs support all across it, I really wouldn't hate it we drafted a DT late in the first.

There's so many what ifs. What if we'd snagged Travis Jones this year, that one stung but he's getting no snaps on a loaded Ravens DL so who knows.
For what it's worth, DT has a relatively modest price tag unless you're paying a Chris Jones-type of talent. Unless KC plans to unload Jones for 2023, I think you're probably looking for a guy next to him on the cheap. I'd actually prefer KC extends Jones for 3 additional years since he only just turned 28 in July. I'm confident you can play a 3rd round-type again like they did with Nnadi out the gate. Pair that with a rotational vet (such as retaining Nnadi) and I think you're fine.

As for the rest, it's a juggling act dependent upon what the Chiefs decide to do with Brown at LT. He's clearly not my cup-o-tea out there but it's obvious Reid and Mahomes have, up until now, been okay with him else Veach wouldn't have offered the contract he did.

If they lock up Brown, I can't help but lean DE in 1 and WR in 2 again or even flip it while having eyes on value at RT. Alot of change happens if it's not OBJ.
[Reply]
JPH83 03:18 AM 09-21-2022
Originally Posted by kccrow:
For what it's worth, DT has a relatively modest price tag unless you're paying a Chris Jones-type of talent. Unless KC plans to unload Jones for 2023, I think you're probably looking for a guy next to him on the cheap. I'd actually prefer KC extends Jones for 3 additional years since he only just turned 28 in July. I'm confident you can play a 3rd round-type again like they did with Nnadi out the gate. Pair that with a rotational vet (such as retaining Nnadi) and I think you're fine.

As for the rest, it's a juggling act dependent upon what the Chiefs decide to do with Brown at LT. He's clearly not my cup-o-tea out there but it's obvious Reid and Mahomes have, up until now, been okay with him else Veach wouldn't have offered the contract he did.

If they lock up Brown, I can't help but lean DE in 1 and WR in 2 again or even flip it while having eyes on value at RT. Alot of change happens if it's not OBJ.
Yeah I think of those positions of need DT is the most likely we can pick up one in FA that's impactful and relatively affordable. I suppose my position is we just need impact across the DL and I'm not sure I care as much where it comes from, and in the draft it's a decent DT class and probably where an immediate contributor will fall to.

If we extend OBJ my guess is we swing for DE first, then WR, and OT and DT in the latter rounds. Completely fine with that approach but I'm not seeing a lot of late first round DEs this year that jump out to me. I suppose I didn't see Karlaftis falling either though.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 07:05 AM 09-21-2022
Originally Posted by JPH83:
Think there's a slim possibility we can pick up someone like Quentin Johnston but agree DL is looking much bettter for us - but I suspect it's going to be DT and it'll just be how much we want that above a riskier DE/OT/WR prospect. I'd love a solid DE or OT but realistically our DL needs support all across it, I really wouldn't hate it we drafted a DT late in the first.

There's so many what ifs. What if we'd snagged Travis Jones this year, that one stung but he's getting no snaps on a loaded Ravens DL so who knows.
It would sure be nice to see another WR emerge and/or slide.

Because a LOT of last weeks struggles on offense were due to the WR corps. They just weren't getting separation. On re-watch, the OL was better than I saw in real time. And the WRs were significantly worse.

We've spent 2 seasons trying to load up on speed on defense in the draft (wisely so, IMO). Well in the process the offense has started to look quite a bit slower. I just don't see a single guy on the field most of the time who you can count on to beat man coverage. I mean, Kelce - but even Kelce's not quite the YAC monster he was 2-3 years ago as he's gotten a little slower with age.

They appear to recognize the need to get CEH and McKinnon involved in the passing game. That can help because both guys can force teams into zones a bit more often. But right now I think the best pure man-beater in the WR group is actually Justin Watson. MVS takes too long to get up to speed. Hardman doesn't appear to have the route-running ability. JJSS is just too slow. Moore isn't seeing the field.

I'd honestly think really hard about making Watson my starting X receiver right now because there's just no threat on the backside of plays.
[Reply]
O.city 07:22 AM 09-21-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
It would sure be nice to see another WR emerge and/or slide.

Because a LOT of last weeks struggles on offense were due to the WR corps. They just weren't getting separation. On re-watch, the OL was better than I saw in real time. And the WRs were significantly worse.

We've spent 2 seasons trying to load up on speed on defense in the draft (wisely so, IMO). Well in the process the offense has started to look quite a bit slower. I just don't see a single guy on the field most of the time who you can count on to beat man coverage. I mean, Kelce - but even Kelce's not quite the YAC monster he was 2-3 years ago as he's gotten a little slower with age.

They appear to recognize the need to get CEH and McKinnon involved in the passing game. That can help because both guys can force teams into zones a bit more often. But right now I think the best pure man-beater in the WR group is actually Justin Watson. MVS takes too long to get up to speed. Hardman doesn't appear to have the route-running ability. JJSS is just too slow. Moore isn't seeing the field.

I'd honestly think really hard about making Watson my starting X receiver right now because there's just no threat on the backside of plays.
This is why I think you've gotta get Moore involved to a higher extent as soon as you can.

They've got guys there now, but his route running ability would really help. And Pat is gonna have to trust some of these guys more.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 07:55 AM 09-21-2022
Originally Posted by O.city:
This is why I think you've gotta get Moore involved to a higher extent as soon as you can.

They've got guys there now, but his route running ability would really help. And Pat is gonna have to trust some of these guys more.
Seems that way.

Because from what I can see - you can use route combos on the strong side with Kelce to create some room over there for your Z. And you can maybe use your Y or your X to stretch the field up the seam. But the other guy just isn't gonna get room because he can't win a 1v1 matchup.

Maybe Moore operating out of the slot can do that. Weird spot to find ourselves when I would be willing to experiment w/ a Watson - Moore - Hardman X/Y/Z trio.

Just gotta find guys who can 'make their own shot' so to speak.
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