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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>DT Thread
RunKC 11:42 AM 02-07-2024
This is a pretty solid DT class with some talent we could use.

JeríZhan Newton
Byron Murphy
T'Vondre Sweat
Maason Smith
Kris Jenkins
Michael Hall Jr
Leonard Taylor
Brandon Fiske
Darius Robinson

Which ones do you think fit us most?
[Reply]
Chargem 04:27 PM 03-22-2024
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
How many 3t's do you want to carry on your 53?
I agree with you, but I also find Jones use on the edge confusing. Do you want slightly fewer edge rushers and more DTs than "normal" because of that?
[Reply]
Nightfyre 04:36 PM 03-22-2024
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
How many 3t's do you want to carry on your 53?
I mean, we had what last year? Jones, Wharton, Danna and Omenihu would slide inside. Without Danna and Omenihu that seems pretty thin.
[Reply]
Chargem 04:03 AM 03-23-2024
Originally Posted by Nightfyre:
I mean, we had what last year? Jones, Wharton, Danna and Omenihu would slide inside. Without Danna and Omenihu that seems pretty thin.
They had two 3T last year, Jones and Wharton, and they are both back. You're arguing a different point, which is that whatever veteran DE they pick up it would be nice if they had inside/outside versatility. Which is true, sure.

I think George also lined up inside last year as well, although I can't find a site that gives snaps by position for free to double check. And Omenihu will be back during the season.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 08:22 AM 03-23-2024
If you want to sign a guy to compete with Wharton, that's fine, but I would spend neither high draft capital, nor big money to do so. You're talking about a depth spot.

If you want an improvement at 1T, you're talking about a two down player, essentially, and I wouldn't spend big money or high draft capital on that either, when guys like Pennell are cheap.

As for Jonesy playing outside some, well, Spags has utilized a four man front with his best four pass rushers for a decade plus now, and clearly likes beefy enough guys to have inside/out versatility at DE for the most part. So that's more about a 'type' than having an issue. And that's why Danna maybe is more valuable HERE than elsewhere.

So, I'd try to get Danna back on a reasonable deal and get on with my life, but that's just me.

And I wouldn't be looking DL at all in the draft, unless it's late.
[Reply]
Nightfyre 11:41 AM 03-23-2024
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
If you want to sign a guy to compete with Wharton, that's fine, but I would spend neither high draft capital, nor big money to do so. You're talking about a depth spot.

If you want an improvement at 1T, you're talking about a two down player, essentially, and I wouldn't spend big money or high draft capital on that either, when guys like Pennell are cheap.

As for Jonesy playing outside some, well, Spags has utilized a four man front with his best four pass rushers for a decade plus now, and clearly likes beefy enough guys to have inside/out versatility at DE for the most part. So that's more about a 'type' than having an issue. And that's why Danna maybe is more valuable HERE than elsewhere.

So, I'd try to get Danna back on a reasonable deal and get on with my life, but that's just me.

And I wouldn't be looking DL at all in the draft, unless it's late.
I agree that if you get Danna back, the problem is solved. That seems like a foregone conclusion now that Sneed is off the books, provided they don't draft a Michael Hall Jr. or another tweener type.
[Reply]
kcbubb 11:56 PM 03-23-2024
Your argument completely ignores our need. I think you have to consider that. Our defense was 2nd overall last year but our run defense was 18th. Our run defense is a problem and Sweat occupies two blockers like few lineman can. He also has the ability to rush the passer and even if he doesnít get there, he likely gets double teamed and frees up another rusher. I get the third and long argument but he can play on all the rest of those down. Iíd take sweat in a heartbeat at 64. Our run defense is instantly better and he can help rush the passer and free up Chris jones. Those two together would be lethal.

Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
If you want to sign a guy to compete with Wharton, that's fine, but I would spend neither high draft capital, nor big money to do so. You're talking about a depth spot.

If you want an improvement at 1T, you're talking about a two down player, essentially, and I wouldn't spend big money or high draft capital on that either, when guys like Pennell are cheap.

As for Jonesy playing outside some, well, Spags has utilized a four man front with his best four pass rushers for a decade plus now, and clearly likes beefy enough guys to have inside/out versatility at DE for the most part. So that's more about a 'type' than having an issue. And that's why Danna maybe is more valuable HERE than elsewhere.

So, I'd try to get Danna back on a reasonable deal and get on with my life, but that's just me.

And I wouldn't be looking DL at all in the draft, unless it's late.

[Reply]
Chargem 03:12 AM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by kcbubb:
Your argument completely ignores our need. I think you have to consider that. Our defense was 2nd overall last year but our run defense was 18th. Our run defense is a problem and Sweat occupies two blockers like few lineman can. He also has the ability to rush the passer and even if he doesnít get there, he likely gets double teamed and frees up another rusher. I get the third and long argument but he can play on all the rest of those down. Iíd take sweat in a heartbeat at 64. Our run defense is instantly better and he can help rush the passer and free up Chris jones. Those two together would be lethal.
I agree with Chris. 2nd overall with only 18th in run defense means you don't don't really need to improve the run defense - you were 2nd overall. A guy like Sweat would be great in isolation, but not worth what he would cost.

Plus, this was the offenses worst season in the Mahomes era, opposing offenses had leads and could run the ball a healthy amount. You get this offense back to 2022 levels and start piling up some points, opponents are not going to be able to run the ball as much.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 07:49 AM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by kcbubb:
Your argument completely ignores our need. I think you have to consider that. Our defense was 2nd overall last year but our run defense was 18th. Our run defense is a problem and Sweat occupies two blockers like few lineman can. He also has the ability to rush the passer and even if he doesnít get there, he likely gets double teamed and frees up another rusher. I get the third and long argument but he can play on all the rest of those down. Iíd take sweat in a heartbeat at 64. Our run defense is instantly better and he can help rush the passer and free up Chris jones. Those two together would be lethal.
That changed pretty dramatically when we brought Pennell in for the play-off run.

Now, you can absolutely argue that Pennell is old, and we really ought to bolster that spot some, but my point is that Pennell was sitting on his couch in October. So two down run stuffers are not expensive, nor worth using a high pick on. Just find another veteran on the cheap like Pennell and rotate snaps with him. A 'better Nnadi', if you will.

I just don't think it's worth significant resources UNLESS you think the player is a freak and offers three down potential as a pass rusher. Those are rare, and maybe Sweat is one of those unicorns, but at this point it's projection.
[Reply]
kcbubb 12:26 PM 03-24-2024
You might be right on his positional value but I like sweat’s ability to push the pocket and limit qbs opportunities to step up and also take on double team. I see your point but at 64, that’s fair value for a DT that can occupy two blockers? I don’t remember Nnadi and Pennll getting double teamed much. You have to double team sweat, he will push the center or guard right back into the qb. Take a look here.

https://youtube.com/shorts/zCDaVQ5U7...6idJ16kB-D9hMI

Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
That changed pretty dramatically when we brought Pennell in for the play-off run.

Now, you can absolutely argue that Pennell is old, and we really ought to bolster that spot some, but my point is that Pennell was sitting on his couch in October. So two down run stuffers are not expensive, nor worth using a high pick on. Just find another veteran on the cheap like Pennell and rotate snaps with him. A 'better Nnadi', if you will.

I just don't think it's worth significant resources UNLESS you think the player is a freak and offers three down potential as a pass rusher. Those are rare, and maybe Sweat is one of those unicorns, but at this point it's projection.

[Reply]
kcbubb 12:30 PM 03-24-2024
What? This makes no sense to me. We were fortunate that more teams didnít stick with the run (ravens game) and we were probably better off with nnadi being injured bc pennell was better against the run in the playoffs. Donít you think we should improve the worst part of our defense, especially with us losing one of the best cbs in league in sneed? I canít understand not wanting to improve the run defense with a DT that probably is double teamed most of the time even if they pass.

Originally Posted by Chargem:
I agree with Chris. 2nd overall with only 18th in run defense means you don't don't really need to improve the run defense - you were 2nd overall. A guy like Sweat would be great in isolation, but not worth what he would cost.

Plus, this was the offenses worst season in the Mahomes era, opposing offenses had leads and could run the ball a healthy amount. You get this offense back to 2022 levels and start piling up some points, opponents are not going to be able to run the ball as much.

[Reply]
kcbubb 12:33 PM 03-24-2024
Here’s another video of sweat at the senior bowl. Good look one on one blocking sweat.

https://youtube.com/shorts/PxUayAmG1...HlGKSyUdydbkaw
[Reply]
Chris Meck 12:37 PM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by kcbubb:
What? This makes no sense to me. We were fortunate that more teams didnít stick with the run (ravens game) and we were probably better off with nnadi being injured bc pennell was better against the run in the playoffs. Donít you think we should improve the worst part of our defense, especially with us losing one of the best cbs in league in sneed? I canít understand not wanting to improve the run defense with a DT that probably is double teamed most of the time even if they pass.
They did that because we loaded up to stop the run and dared them to throw. We can stop the run when we need to.

It's all academic. There's almost nothing Veach can do in the draft that's going to anger me. I see a lot of viable paths.
[Reply]
Nightfyre 02:28 PM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
That changed pretty dramatically when we brought Pennell in for the play-off run.

Now, you can absolutely argue that Pennell is old, and we really ought to bolster that spot some, but my point is that Pennell was sitting on his couch in October. So two down run stuffers are not expensive, nor worth using a high pick on. Just find another veteran on the cheap like Pennell and rotate snaps with him. A 'better Nnadi', if you will.

I just don't think it's worth significant resources UNLESS you think the player is a freak and offers three down potential as a pass rusher. Those are rare, and maybe Sweat is one of those unicorns, but at this point it's projection.
Yea, but if it wasn't projection Sweat would go like top 10-15, imo. So if you can have him in the second? And with Cullen as his coach, Jones as his teammate and mentor, and an unquestioned motor I like the odds.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 03:13 PM 03-24-2024
Originally Posted by Nightfyre:
Yea, but if it wasn't projection Sweat would go like top 10-15, imo. So if you can have him in the second? And with Cullen as his coach, Jones as his teammate and mentor, and an unquestioned motor I like the odds.
I don't hate it, and one thing I have learned is that I have no idea what Brett's going to do before he does it. It always works out and makes sense after the fact. Even if it's a swing and a miss, I understand the thinking. So, I am excited but I have no clue which way they go.
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Chris Meck 03:17 PM 03-24-2024
The only thing about going Sweat in the second is that I don't see them waiting to the third to address WR.

A year from now, you have Rice under contract and a 36 year old Travis Kelce. And that's it.

If they go like Morgan at OT, they kind of need to go WR at #64. If they're flexible as to the TYPE of WR, there should be several good options. If they want a specific skillset, they're going to have to do it at #32.
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