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Nzoner's Game Room>Veach's '21 Offseason Plan to Keep Us Thriving: Let's speculate
Dante84 10:03 AM 02-08-2021
In order to prevent us wasting precious years of Patrick Mahomes' career, Veach needs to work some magic this offseason. What's your advice for him?
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htismaqe 11:27 AM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by BossChief:
It all depends on who’s available in that 12-20 range.

This is a strong OT draft but we need to dig in a little deeper to see how many do the following...

ability needed to pass protect on an island against the games best
athletic ability to move in space on screens, misdirection and perimeter runs
The strength at the POA to drive runs to his side and handle bull rushes

Just because there are a lot of OTs, doesn’t mean there are a lot of OTs we feel fit what we want from the position.
Absolutely.

And that INCLUDES guys that will go before 31 and we might need to trade up for, e.g. Jenkins.

Your logic applies to every tackle in the draft, especially the ones the Chiefs might be eyeing. Trading up doesn't guarantee anything at all.
[Reply]
staylor26 11:28 AM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
Or I actually have a job, and while I am working from home and do have a bit more time to spend on here I can't spend 10 hours a day on Chiefsplanet like you seem to do.
Yea I spend 10 hours a day on CP!

:-)

I’m running the CP Mock Draft, hence why I’ve been on all week.

Nice try! You had the time to post this, but no rebuttal though, right?
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:28 AM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
If they did that, they won't be looking for a LT for a few years, whatever happens. THey won't declare the guy a bust after 1 year.
Then they'll have one less pick for a WR, DE, or any other need that arises and they can't fill in free agency.

They may be at the end of the 1st round but they are still cost controlled for five, not four, years.

Those things are much more valuable than you're making them out to be. They simply are.
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:31 AM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by Superturtle:
Yeah, sorry, but two late first rounders isn't that much of a price to me if Reid and Veach identify what they believe to be a LTOTF and go up to get him.
The difference between picking up a 5th year option vs. a player in free agency, especially when you're talking about 2 first rounders, could be the difference between having enough money for a guy like Trent Williams or Cam Erving.

It's simply not as insignificant as you guys want it to be.
[Reply]
Sassy Squatch 11:35 AM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
The difference between picking up a 5th year option vs. a player in free agency, especially when you're talking about 2 first rounders, could be the difference between having enough money for a guy like Trent Williams or Cam Erving.

It's simply not as insignificant as you guys want it to be.
5th year options aren't nearly as valuable as they used to be now that they're performance based instead of draft slot based.
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:38 AM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by Superturtle:
5th year options aren't nearly as valuable as they used to be now that they're performance based instead of draft slot based.
They're still far more cost effective than free agency, when it comes to good players.
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O.city 11:40 AM 03-24-2021
They definitely need to hit on draft picks going forward, can't keep having to go into free agency for players.

But it just shows why it's so hard to stay good for so long. Things are against you getting great players.
[Reply]
Sassy Squatch 11:41 AM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
They're still far more cost effective than free agency, when it comes to good players.
Not really. Just one Pro Bowl and you're paying transition tag price.
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BossChief 11:43 AM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Absolutely.

And that INCLUDES guys that will go before 31 and we might need to trade up for, e.g. Jenkins.

Your logic applies to every tackle in the draft, especially the ones the Chiefs might be eyeing. Trading up doesn't guarantee anything at all.
Can we avoid using the term “guarantee”?

To me, it’s silly to try to boil stuff like this down to a “guarantee”...to be honest, the majority of the OTs in this market are better than Fisher was.

That includes OBJ2.
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htismaqe 11:45 AM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by BossChief:
Can we avoid using the term “guarantee”?

To me, it’s silly to try to boil stuff like this down to a “guarantee”...to be honest, the majority of the OTs in this market are better than Fisher was.

That includes OBJ2.
That's fine with me. I didn't create that straw man. I don't believe guarantees exist in the NFL, especially not in the draft, just chances.

It's all about opportunity cost.
[Reply]
OKchiefs 11:46 AM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
Yea I spend 10 hours a day on CP!

:-)

I’m running the CP Mock Draft, hence why I’ve been on all week.

Nice try! You had the time to post this, but no rebuttal though, right?
What's the point? You'll nitpick every single statement I make instead of engaging in a conversation.

For the record, I haven't been one of the ones on here bitching about not signing anybody. I'm not happy about the off-season but complaining about it non-stop wasn't going to help anything. That also led to the point I was making, that I don't think it's the end of the world if we don't fill every need because I'm not sure this is the year to go all in.

But I truly apologize that you and I don't see eye to eye on every single detail. I'll refrain from offering opinions that are anything less than a rosy outlook on the upcoming season.
[Reply]
staylor26 11:51 AM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
What's the point? You'll nitpick every single statement I make instead of engaging in a conversation.

For the record, I haven't been one of the ones on here bitching about not signing anybody. I'm not happy about the off-season but complaining about it non-stop wasn't going to help anything. That also led to the point I was making, that I don't think it's the end of the world if we don't fill every need because I'm not sure this is the year to go all in.

But I truly apologize that you and I don't see eye to eye on every single detail. I'll refrain from offering opinions that are anything less than a rosy outlook on the upcoming season.
You weeks ago:

The Chiefs shouldn’t trade a pick for a proven LT. That’s a sign of bad drafting.

You today:

There’s no way the Chiefs can beat the almighty Rams roster if they’re lucky enough to make the SB!

That’s not nitpicking. That’s pointing out hypocrisy and stupidity.

Also, saying the Chiefs had a terrible 2018 draft, but describing their 2020 draft as “pretty good” goes to show how unrealistic your expectations are and how clueless you really are.

News flash:

When you’re picking 32nd it doesn’t get any fucking better than our 2020 draft.
[Reply]
BossChief 12:01 PM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
That's fine with me. I didn't create that straw man. I don't believe guarantees exist in the NFL, especially not in the draft, just chances.

It's all about opportunity cost.
I trust Veach and our staffs ability to evaluate talent.

Here’s how it will work and this ISN'T speculation.

We will identify the group of OTs we feel can play in our system at a pro bowl or all pro level. We only have interest in that level of player for group 1. We will run through 20-30 internal mocks to try to identify where those guys will land. We will have a timeline of how we will specialize the training for each of them if we were to pick them so we have a plan in place to develop them.

Before the draft starts, we will have conversations with GMs at certain “sweet spots” to gauge their interest in moving down and identify the spots we can move to and the likely cost to do so. We will also reach out to other teams to do counter intelligence and to give misinformation to try to push other talents up so our guys fall a little more.

Once the draft is underway, we will be patient until it’s necessary to be aggressive..but trust me when I say our aggressiveness to go get the guy we want out of that list will be bold. That time will be when there are 2 of the guys on our list on the board. We’re hoping that doesn’t happen till the 20s, but it could be much sooner and we are willing to use next years first to move up to get the guy we feel can make Pat comfortable in the pocket enough to go through progressions.

Hopefully as the draft nears (within 3-4 days of the draft) we can convince Baltimore to make a realistic deal with us, but at this point that doesn’t seem likely. If it were just the picks, the deal would be done already...but the picks and the contract requires a lot of very limited resources and commitment and there’s a utoff point (like in the silverback negotiations) when the arOI is no longer there.
[Reply]
htismaqe 12:04 PM 03-24-2021
Originally Posted by BossChief:
Hopefully as the draft nears (within 3-4 days of the draft) we can convince Baltimore to make a realistic deal with us, but at this point that doesn’t seem likely. If it were just the picks, the deal would be done already...but the picks and the contract requires a lot of very limited resources and commitment and there’s a utoff point (like in the silverback negotiations) when the arOI is no longer there.
I don't buy this at all.

If they had the money to sign Trent Williams, they have the money to sign Orlando Brown.

THE issue is the draft picks and only the draft picks. If it were about money, then it would have been done already. In fact, he might have been their first target over Williams simply due to his age.
[Reply]
Sassy Squatch 12:06 PM 03-24-2021
What the fuck is this gimmick, Bosschief?
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