Elements of this discussion are popping up in other threads, so let's discuss it in its own thread?
My opinion :
NFL defenses have caught up with the RPO.
Time for Patrick to really hone his pre-snap reads and start actually going through progressions based on those reads as opposed to reading the safety to determine man or zone and then doing everything else based on what the defense presents once the ball is snapped.
They know what we're doing and have adjusted.
Will Reid toss Bieniemy and go back to his WCO roots and press Mahomes to be even greater?
Or are we looking at another McCarthy-Rogers situation? [Reply]
Originally Posted by OKchiefs;16497978[B:
[/B]]Well most of the wide receivers are gone next year requiring another complete rebuild of the group, so we're going to go through the same song and dance yet again.
If an offense is so complicated that it takes forever for players to learn it and it still isn't as effective as it once was, maybe it's time to get with the times and rely more on allowing young players with talent to use said talent to get open rather than always trying to scheme everyone open.
That’s the part that puzzles me why turn over the position again next year? I hope that we make a big acquisition next year for the long term whether it be through the draft or free agency. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Marcellus:
I mean this certainly reads like someone thinks they know.
And hey, I'm discussing football as well bud, this is hilarious.
My opinion they need to simply open up the offense and go back to what they were doing before last season and stop trying to dink and dunk the ball down the field. My $.02.
Listen, Eric Bieniemy.
It hasn't worked for awhile. Sucks you didn't get hired (again), but the NFL has evolved, bud. Besides...have you seen your offensive line? Them tackles really are offensive... [Reply]
Originally Posted by Marcellus:
Knowing the difference between an RPO and an audible has nothing to do with knowing how Mahomes is going through his reads and making the comment his reads have nothing to do with what his pre-snap defensive read is.
One of the reasons they use motion is specifically to get a pre snap read on the defense.
On that topic anyway, have you not heard Mahomes yell "kill kill kill" or yell "we good we good" pre snap?
WTF do you think he is doing there?
Changing protection, mostly.
Again. RPO is based off ONE pre-snap read - where is the safety? Defense man or zone?
All other decisions - by the QB AND the WRs - are made post-snap.
It's also why there's so much confusion. I think Patrick has not there has not been one play yet on offense where someone HADN'T screwed up something... [Reply]
I don’t think we can just throw EB under the bus he has been working with only 2 offensive playmakers and kept us in the top few in the league on offense [Reply]
Originally Posted by Shag:
Interestingly, looking at this: https://www.pro-football-reference.c...g_advanced.htm, they only have Mahomes at 9 RPO snaps on the season. I haven't paid close enough attention to know if this is accurate, but afaik, they're generally considered a good resource for NFL stats.
I don't know about that, but it almost seems exclusively RPO between the 20s. It feels to me as if he only goes under center in the red zone...of course, I have PTSD, so... [Reply]
Originally Posted by Red Dawg:
Then that sucks. Brady did it in one year and so did Stafford. What it really means it's an offense that relies on tricking the defense more than a players talent level to beat his man. So guys need time to learn where to go and not just be better route runners.
enter Mecole Hardman, the reason why Mahomes ended the game with an INT last week in crunch time due to Hardman's inability to properly run fucking routes in year 4 of the system.
Is that on Hardman for sucking so hard, man (sorry, couldn't resist) or on the complacent coaching staff who keeps trotting him out there unprepared? [Reply]
Originally Posted by rabblerouser:
enter Mecole Hardman, the reason why Mahomes ended the game with an INT last week in crunch time due to Hardman's inability to properly run fucking routes in year 4 of the system.
Is that on Hardman for sucking so hard, man (sorry, couldn't resist) or on the complacent coaching staff who keeps trotting him out there unprepared?
Originally Posted by OKchiefs:
Well most of the wide receivers are gone next year requiring another complete rebuild of the group, so we're going to go through the same song and dance yet again.
If an offense is so complicated that it takes forever for players to learn it and it still isn't as effective as it once was, maybe it's time to get with the times and rely more on allowing young players with talent to use said talent to get open rather than always trying to scheme everyone open.
Well, I've seen enough Mecole Hardman to last a fucking lifetime. Don't know if he's actually any better than Chris Conley. Seem to be the same fucking person, except one of them is faster at fucking things up. [Reply]
You didn’t see Juju motioning to Hardman after the play that he did something wrong? Just because it was to Juju doesn’t mean Hardman’s route didn’t impact the play. [Reply]
Originally Posted by rabblerouser:
hardman ran his route about 2 yards too short.
If he runs his route correctly, it would've set like a legal pick almost that would've cleared those defenders out of the zone JuJu was going to.
Instead, Mecole doesn't sell his route, his defender peels off and floats to where JuJu was and the result was an interception.
Sir.
Go rewatch the play and get back at me.
Yes, i'm familiar with the video that was posted days ago that claimed Hardman didn't run a pick route correctly. (Which has nothing to do with selling a route btw).
Despite that, JJSS should've flattened his route rather than turning it upfield.
That's the ACTUAL reason it was intercepted.
Yes, Hardman could've done a better job running into a defender 15ish yards upfield (I guess).
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Yes, i'm familiar with the video that was posted days ago that claimed Hardman didn't run a pick route correctly. (Which has nothing to do with selling a route btw).
Despite that, JJSS should've flattened his route rather than turning it upfield.
That's the ACTUAL reason it was intercepted.
Yes, Hardman could've done a better job running into a defender 15ish yards upfield (I guess).
But that play was on JJSS.
He needed to sell it AND run it farther.
The reason the fucking defender peeled off Hardman and went to JuJu is because the defender didn't fucking care about Hardman.
That much is obvious from watching the replay.
Point is, they're all pressing because the system doesn't work anymore.
Find something they can do with confidence. And build on that.
I don't have to be a fucking football coach to understand that.
Unless you're saying Hardman is great and is actually exactly what the coaching staff wants and THAT'S why they keep trotting him out there?
You said we should run more screens. Which is counter-intuitive to the coverages the Chiefs are getting.
You said we should run more crossers. Crossers are and have always been the bread and butter of this offense. They run a shit ton of crossing patterns.
You said they run too many RPO's....yet data suggests they're barely running RPO's at all this season.
You said it's the same ol' offense when in fact they've been using more 21 and 22 personel than they have at any point in Mahomes' career.
I just don't think ya'll got a feel for them the way you think you do. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Sorry i just....sigh.
You said we should run more screens. Which is counter-intuitive to the coverages the Chiefs are getting.
You said we should run more crossers. Crossers are and have always been the bread and butter of this offense. They run a shit ton of crossing patterns.
You said they run too many RPO's....yet data suggests they're barely running RPO's at all this season.
You said it's the same ol' offense when in fact they've been using more 21 and 22 personel than they have at any point in Mahomes' career.
I just don't think ya'll got a feel for them the way you think you do.
I specifically said more slants and then do the slant-and-go/sluggo concepts when defenders play the inside of the slant.
But to do it from under the center with pre-snap reads and attacking the weakest part of a defense woud be cool?
That would be fucking CRAZY.
I think we all just want the team to do well. And something isn't right.
Most teams are successful because of effort and cohesion.
I don't think the coaching staff is cohesive, and it's resulting in lackluster effort already in week 3.
Relying solely on Mahomes' talent isn't a great formula for sustainable success. Relying on it for team cohesion in an attempt to sustain effort is foolhardy. [Reply]