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Nzoner's Game Room>Frank Clark fucking sucks
RealSNR 02:33 PM 09-15-2019
Guy has done NOTHING in two games. Barely any pressures to speak of against trash OTs.

Yeah, I'm in bitchy gameday mode. Don't care. I'm tired of paying out the ass for defensive players who don't make plays.

At least Justin Houston could dominate against bad teams after we paid him.
[Reply]
irafreak 01:33 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by tyecopeland:
This is a good breakdown. But, you are forgetting the replacement cost.

Cutting Clark would have forced the Chiefs to sign someone else (for depth at the very least) at the position. If it was a depth piece, not very expensive. But if it would have been a one year rental veteran type player, at least a good chunk of that 9 mil in dead cap is gone anyway because of this year.

Would I take that trade off? Yes. Because Clark isn't providing anything more than replacement level play anyway. But it's not quite as cut and dry 'extra 9 mil in cap costs next year for keeping clark' as you lay it out here.
Yep. This year it was 9 million dead plus his replacement's cost. I don't remember but was this done before the tyreek trade? I could see veech saying we need money now so we'll come to a compromise with frank. Clark is lousy but you need bodies.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 01:34 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by tyecopeland:
This is a good breakdown. But, you are forgetting the replacement cost.

Cutting Clark would have forced the Chiefs to sign someone else (for depth at the very least) at the position. If it was a depth piece, not very expensive. But if it would have been a one year rental veteran type player, at least a good chunk of that 9 mil in dead cap is gone anyway because of this year.

Would I take that trade off? Yes. Because Clark isn't providing anything more than replacement level play anyway. But it's not quite as cut and dry 'extra 9 mil in cap costs next year for keeping clark' as you lay it out here.
Depending on how far down the rabbit hole, of course - the ripples in the lake continue going outward and that's worth acknowledging.

That said - guy's replacement level. Maybe. He's probably better than Kaindoh but he's isn't by a ton.

Though I'll concede that it's unlikely Veach would've been content rolling with Danna out there. But as I said at the time, I'd have gladly continued a youth movement with some potentially undervalued younger players like Derek Barnett, Bilal Nichols, Dorance Armstrong, Arden Key, Rasheem Green, etc...

Any of them would've easily slotted into that 'free' space. I mean we're not at the cap right this very second and all those guys signed in the 2nd and 3rd waves had surprisingly reasonable AAVs and many even took 2-3 year deals with a little upside baked in the cake.

My frustration in all this was the predictability and avoidability of it.

Oh, and we're not even getting into not taking a DE instead of a 3rd safety in the 2nd round when discussing 'replacement cost'. I've simply had no choice but to let that one go. There's no unringing the bell now.
[Reply]
htismaqe 01:34 PM 09-23-2022
Heís here for the rest of this season and then heís gone. Canít believe this is still a discussion.
[Reply]
RunKC 01:37 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Heís here for the rest of this season and then heís gone. Canít believe this is still a discussion.
Chiefsplanet tradition.

Alex Smith
Dee Ford
Justin Houston
Eric Berry
Frank Clark

Always someone. A tradition like no other!
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 01:39 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by RunKC:
OrÖhear me out hereÖCarlos Dunlap?

Yeah. Thatíll do. And a first rd pick. And Mike Danna playing really well.

These old guys like JPP, Ingram and Dunlap shouldnít be getting a ton of snaps like a starter anymore. Theyíve got about 10 years worth of being banged up. Donít think itís sustainable for a 17 game season.

Again. Karlaftis and Danna both got 6 pressures week 1 and our DL got 18 last Thursday. Thatís top 5 in the league guys.

So what are we complaining about again?
Why do you keep deflecting?

Because every single thing you mentioned - literally every one of them - is a WHOLLY independent analysis from Frank Clark. None of them are impacted by his presence on the roster.

Cut Frank Clark - can still sign Dunlap. Cut Frank Clark - can still draft George Karlaftis. Cut Frank Clark - Mike Danna still develops in the off-season.

Keeping Frank Clark did NOTHING to impact those things. He's done nothing to make them easier. He's done nothing to make them more substantial. Having Frank Clark on this roster has done jack and shit and will only make things HARDER next season.

Again - I'm just a little confused by your insistence on being obtuse here. You know exactly what everyone is saying. You know they're not just 'bitching to bitch' and that Frank Clark didn't have anything to do with the rest of the things you've cited.

So what the hell are you trying to accomplish here? Is your point that people should stop pointing out that Frank Clark Fucking Sucks in a thread titled "Frank Clark Fucking Sucks"?

Because that seems...Quixotic.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 01:41 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Heís here for the rest of this season and then heís gone. Canít believe this is still a discussion.
It's a discussion because Brett Veach brought him back when he shouldn't have.

I agree - I can't believe it happened either.

Because it was clear to anyone that doesn't have a blind spot for this fucking clown that not only was his ability overstated to non-existent, but his 'voice' simply isn't needed or welcome anymore.

This guy ran his course by week 4 of the 2020 season and yet here we are with him still on the roster. Because Veach was unwilling to walk away from a mistake.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 01:59 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Chiefsplanet tradition.

Alex Smith
Dee Ford
Justin Houston
Eric Berry
Frank Clark

Always someone. A tradition like no other!
Dude, you once tried to cite the presence of Frank Clark as the reason for the Ravens running rollout run/pass actions to the right side when they had Marshall Yanda at RG and a righthanded quarterback (oh, and continued running to that side when he moved over there in the 2nd half).

And said that the fact that Clark lined up over the TE (on his off side, no less) and was then run into as the TE went into the pattern was an example of a 'double team' that justified him getting completely stonewalled. Or that he was doubled when we ran a stunt that put him in the B gap. Or when we sent 3 rushers and the G had an option of hitting Clark or fingering his own butthole.

And this wasn't after he defeated the double team, mind you. Or single team. Or backup TEs. It was after he got smacked around AGAIN and you felt compelled to defend it as 'doing his job' in making life easier for his teammates.

Oh sure, CP has guys it likes to flog. Definitely something of a tradition around here.

But so is you fondling Frank Clark's nuts and you've been doing it since the moment the trade was made. And unlike Staylor, you've simply refused to stop doing so.

This isn't about CP being unfairly critical - this is about some folks (including, sadly, our General Manager) who refuse to simply see what's right in front of them as it relates to Frank Clark.
[Reply]
penguinz 02:05 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Heís here for the rest of this season and then heís gone. Canít believe this is still a discussion.
You forgot to include: "He is a flaming aids tree and should just die so he cant be put on the field. BV should trade him for a 2nd and a 4th."
[Reply]
-King- 02:09 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by RunKC:
OrÖhear me out hereÖCarlos Dunlap?

Yeah. Thatíll do. And a first rd pick. And Mike Danna playing really well.

These old guys like JPP, Ingram and Dunlap shouldnít be getting a ton of snaps like a starter anymore. Theyíve got about 10 years worth of being banged up. Donít think itís sustainable for a 17 game season.

Again. Karlaftis and Danna both got 6 pressures week 1 and our DL got 18 last Thursday. Thatís top 5 in the league guys.

So what are we complaining about again?
Ok, you have to be trolling at this point.

So if Dunlap was Clark's replacement, then they didn't need to re-sign Clark at all. Especially if he was going to cost them money in 2023. If he wasn't Clark's replacement, they could have still signed him and also signed one of the other guys I mentioned and not have to re-sign Clark especially if he would cost them money in 2023.
[Reply]
RunKC 02:12 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Why do you keep deflecting?

Because every single thing you mentioned - literally every one of them - is a WHOLLY independent analysis from Frank Clark. None of them are impacted by his presence on the roster.

Cut Frank Clark - can still sign Dunlap. Cut Frank Clark - can still draft George Karlaftis. Cut Frank Clark - Mike Danna still develops in the off-season.

Keeping Frank Clark did NOTHING to impact those things. He's done nothing to make them easier. He's done nothing to make them more substantial. Having Frank Clark on this roster has done jack and shit and will only make things HARDER next season.

Again - I'm just a little confused by your insistence on being obtuse here. You know exactly what everyone is saying. You know they're not just 'bitching to bitch' and that Frank Clark didn't have anything to do with the rest of the things you've cited.

So what the hell are you trying to accomplish here? Is your point that people should stop pointing out that Frank Clark ****ing Sucks in a thread titled "Frank Clark ****ing Sucks"?

Because that seems...Quixotic.
Honestly it doesnít make it very much harder next year bc we traded Tyreek and cashed in on draft picks. The last 2 drafts have helped us gain significant leverage. And we have 12 draft picks next year with $25 million cap space (11th in NFL per OTC).

And hell Clyde and Danna stepping up has made this an ever better situation too thus far.

You guys are acting like this Frank Clark restructure is a giant anchor that is disabling us from doing anythingÖ.itís not.

So far Karlaftis has 9 pressures, Danna has 8, Jones has 12 and Dunlap has 7. Frank has 5. Heís a rotational player at this point. Iím not his biggest fan but fuck man. We are a top unit pressuring the QB so far this season.

Weíre legitimately good and you guys are bitching about something that doesnít matter and that you also canít change. I was worried about their plan keeping Frank but am surprised that they look so good 2 weeks in.

Seriously. Itís sunny outside and you guys are upset bc thereís a chance of rain.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 02:13 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by -King-:
Ok, you have to be trolling at this point.

So if Dunlap was Clark's replacement, then they didn't need to re-sign Clark at all. Especially if he was going to cost them money in 2023. If he wasn't Clark's replacement, they could have also signed one of the other guys I mentioned and not have to re-sign Clark especially if he would cost them money in 2023.
You would think so.

But if so - shit man, credit to him for the long game on this one.

Because he's been doing this for 4 years now. There is nothing he won't chalk up to the presence of Frank Clark. Ogbah got a sack once and he used it as proof that Frank Clark was great while acknowledging that Clark wasn't on the fucking field at the time.

But/for the join date and ability to construct complete sentences, I'd presume he was a Frank Clark burner account.

Run's been waiving these Frank Clark pom poms for a looooooong time.
[Reply]
penguinz 02:17 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
You would think so.

But if so - shit man, credit to him for the long game on this one.

Because he's been doing this for 4 years now. There is nothing he won't chalk up to the presence of Frank Clark. Ogbah got a sack once and he used it as proof that Frank Clark was great while acknowledging that Clark wasn't on the ****ing field at the time.

But/for the join date and ability to construct complete sentences, I'd presume he was a Frank Clark burner account.

Run's been waiving these Frank Clark pom poms for a looooooong time.
Maybe the Shark was the loudest one cheering on the sideline for Ogbah.
[Reply]
htismaqe 02:18 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
It's a discussion because Brett Veach brought him back when he shouldn't have.

I agree - I can't believe it happened either.

Because it was clear to anyone that doesn't have a blind spot for this fucking clown that not only was his ability overstated to non-existent, but his 'voice' simply isn't needed or welcome anymore.

This guy ran his course by week 4 of the 2020 season and yet here we are with him still on the roster. Because Veach was unwilling to walk away from a mistake.
It isnít really a discussion though. He sucks. Not much to discuss there. Veach brought him back anyway and we are stuck with him. Not much to discuss there either. The Frank Clark discussion ran its course about the same time he did.
[Reply]
RunKC 02:23 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by -King-:
Ok, you have to be trolling at this point.

So if Dunlap was Clark's replacement, then they didn't need to re-sign Clark at all. Especially if he was going to cost them money in 2023. If he wasn't Clark's replacement, they could have still signed him and also signed one of the other guys I mentioned and not have to re-sign Clark especially if he would cost them money in 2023.
Carlos Dunlap played 17 snaps last week. The fewest of any DL that played. Heís a backup rotational player at this point. Thatís his role and he knows it.

And you know why? Probably bc this is his 14th year playing professional football. Heís 33 dude. He ainít what he used to be. Heís beat up. Hell his Achilles bothered him before he played and he missed the first week of camp.

These older guys shouldnít be playing 55-65 snaps a game as a starter. Itís a 17 game season. Itís foolish to burn them out in a long season.
[Reply]
RunKC 02:33 PM 09-23-2022
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
It isnít really a discussion though. He sucks. Not much to discuss there. Veach brought him back anyway and we are stuck with him. Not much to discuss there either. The Frank Clark discussion ran its course about the same time he did.
Yeah DJ is making me out to be a Frank Clark defender. Iíve been frustrated with him for a few years now.

We won a SB in part due to him IMO and then he just fell off significantly. If anything Iím defending the teams plan this offseason (so far) bc itís actually worked.

Now we have started phase 2. And goddamn man. Our HC is elite, our STís is elite, our front office is elite, our secondary coaching and talent identification is elite. Now Joe Cullen looks like heís got our pass rush turned around looking like Dave Merritt and these corners.

Iím excited that our coaching staff looks better. We have the best staff in football and itís showing.

That sure hides mistakes like Frank Clark
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