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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>If the Chiefs took WR Christian Watson at 30
staylor26 02:01 PM 03-11-2022
How would you feel about that?
[Reply]
The Franchise 10:23 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
No I'm just pointing out that you've developed an irrational viewpoint when in reality you've said you might take Watson at #62. I'd take him at 50. So all this hyperbole is nonsense.
Except everyone is talking about taking him at 29 or 30.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 10:24 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
No I'm just pointing out that you've developed an irrational viewpoint when in reality you've said you might take Watson at #62. I'd take him at 50. So all this hyperbole is nonsense.
Where's the irrational part?

Hell, where's the hyperbole?
[Reply]
duncan_idaho 10:24 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
And here's Christian Watson's.

He plays hard and fast but needs to add a few more pounds and learn to impose his frame on the coverage. He's a field-stretching option requiring a linear route tree and projects as a capable WR3/4 with more work.
That's one view of him.

The breakdown from the Draft Network is really detailed and worth reading (this includes them having eyes-on looks at him at the Senior Bowl).

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/c...son/9ZZDrHRkOk

Their summary is:
Christian Watson is a very good athlete with good speed, agility, and excellent body control. For a taller receiver, he is surprisingly dynamic and displays the ability to consistently win against man coverage. In the passing game, he is extremely tough to cover. He can defeat press with foot quickness and has surprisingly good vertical speed. His home-run speed threatens a defender's cushion quickly. He does a good job of dropping his weight while displaying the separation quickness at the top of the route. He has a very good catch radius and is a matchup problem in contested-catch situations. He can contort his body to make tough catches and is dynamic with the football in his hands. In the NFL he is an outside receiver who projects with very good ability in the kicking game both as a returner and a core special teamer.

His agility also shows up in the way he moves after the catch. It's not just combine/workout stuff. He's a super fast guy (rocket up his butt, to borrow a term) who ALSO makes people miss with elusiveness (jukes, change-of-direction) and power (stiff arms and running through weak arm tackles).
[Reply]
The Franchise 10:28 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
That's one view of him.

The breakdown from the Draft Network is really detailed and worth reading (this includes them having eyes-on looks at him at the Senior Bowl).

https://thedraftnetwork.com/player/c...son/9ZZDrHRkOk

Their summary is:
Christian Watson is a very good athlete with good speed, agility, and excellent body control. For a taller receiver, he is surprisingly dynamic and displays the ability to consistently win against man coverage. In the passing game, he is extremely tough to cover. He can defeat press with foot quickness and has surprisingly good vertical speed. His home-run speed threatens a defender's cushion quickly. He does a good job of dropping his weight while displaying the separation quickness at the top of the route. He has a very good catch radius and is a matchup problem in contested-catch situations. He can contort his body to make tough catches and is dynamic with the football in his hands. In the NFL he is an outside receiver who projects with very good ability in the kicking game both as a returner and a core special teamer.

His agility also shows up in the way he moves after the catch. It's not just combine/workout stuff. He's a super fast guy (rocket up his butt, to borrow a term) who ALSO makes people miss with elusiveness (jukes, change-of-direction) and power (stiff arms and running through weak arm tackles).
I was just pointing out that using NFL.com's draft profile to shoot down one player when NFL.com has the same shit about the other player isn't that great of an argument.

Here's Jones' report from the same website.

Travis Jones had offers from Boston College, Temple, Rutgers, and Buffalo but chose to stay close to home and play his college football at UConn where he developed into a highly-regarded team leader. Jones arrived on campus at 360 pounds with 30% body fat but has since dropped 30 pounds and reduced his body fat percentage to 13%. While Jones profiles best to a 1-technique/nose tackle role that provides most of his value on running downs, he is a terrific athlete for his size and has found ways to apply consistent pressure on the quarterback despite all of the challenging dynamics to consider within the Huskies defense. Jones is a stout run defender that frequently resets the line of scrimmage and is unselfish in how he takes on blocks, eats space, and keeps the second level clean. He is a strong processor against the run that is rarely out of his fit. As a pass rusher, Jones is an excellent pocket pusher that has active hands and the ability to power through rush angles. There are plenty of reasons to believe that under better circumstances and given his unique physical skill set and body transformation that he will be an even better pro than college player. He should immediately make an NFL run defense better and make the unit more stout.
[Reply]
duncan_idaho 10:35 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
How's he compare to someone like, I dunno, Stephen Hill. Robert Davis. Javon Walker?

If we want to start talking about ceilings, lets at least be reasonable and talk about a dude like Walker. But Walker at least produced out of FSU with very similar measurables to Watson.
What do you mean by "Produced?"

Walker had 932 yards and 7 TDs his last year at Florida State, accounting for 32 percent of their passing yards.

Watson had 900 yards and 7 TDs this year, accounting for 35 percent of passing yards.
[Reply]
duncan_idaho 10:37 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
I was just pointing out that using NFL.com's draft profile to shoot down one player when NFL.com has the same shit about the other player isn't that great of an argument.

Here's Jones' report from the same website.

Travis Jones had offers from Boston College, Temple, Rutgers, and Buffalo but chose to stay close to home and play his college football at UConn where he developed into a highly-regarded team leader. Jones arrived on campus at 360 pounds with 30% body fat but has since dropped 30 pounds and reduced his body fat percentage to 13%. While Jones profiles best to a 1-technique/nose tackle role that provides most of his value on running downs, he is a terrific athlete for his size and has found ways to apply consistent pressure on the quarterback despite all of the challenging dynamics to consider within the Huskies defense. Jones is a stout run defender that frequently resets the line of scrimmage and is unselfish in how he takes on blocks, eats space, and keeps the second level clean. He is a strong processor against the run that is rarely out of his fit. As a pass rusher, Jones is an excellent pocket pusher that has active hands and the ability to power through rush angles. There are plenty of reasons to believe that under better circumstances and given his unique physical skill set and body transformation that he will be an even better pro than college player. He should immediately make an NFL run defense better and make the unit more stout.
Gotcha.

Personally, these are two guys that I really like as fits for the Chiefs. If the Chiefs draft includes both in its top 4 picks, I'd consider that to be a very successful one.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 10:38 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
What do you mean by "Produced?"

Walker had 932 yards and 7 TDs his last year at Florida State, accounting for 32 percent of their passing yards.

Watson had 900 yards and 7 TDs this year, accounting for 35 percent of passing yards.
I meant produced similarly. Again emphasizing the disparity in the quality of competition.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 11:28 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Same 20 yard shuttle time and better 40 time than Poe.

Would you question Poe's get-off?

I've always thought broad jump was an excellent indicator of lower body explosion. Remember how we fawned over Poe's? Jones was 5 inches BETTER.

I'll acknowledge that Watson is a hell of an athlete - the numbers clearly support it. The numbers also clearly support that Jones is a well above average athlete, bordering on a great one, for a DT.
would I take Poe over a swing at a potentially great WR? NOPE.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 11:30 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Where's the irrational part?

Hell, where's the hyperbole?
If the guy's a piece of shit underwear warrior and a huge mistake at 30, and a laughable reach at 50, but you might take him at 60? And you'd take a space eating DT at 30 instead?

I mean, come on man.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 11:36 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Except everyone is talking about taking him at 29 or 30.
well, I don't know about EVERYONE.

I'd take him at 50.

What I'm getting at is an attitude of 'THIS KID SUCKS, HE'S TERRIBLE, HE'S TOTAL SHIT AND WOULD BE A HUGE MISTAKE AT 3O! But I might take him at 62.

I mean, come on man.

It's hyperbole. It's irrational.

You might feel like 30 is a reach, but it's not absurd. Hell, I think it's a reach, and I like the kid.
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:38 AM 03-31-2022
What am I missing? Javon Walker was a pretty decent NFL WR until he got hurt. Even after his injury, he had a decent season in Denver before injuries finally got the best of him.

I guess I'm not seeing why the Walker comparison is so damning to Watson.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 11:41 AM 03-31-2022
I mean, DJ is adamant that Watson is a 6'4" pile of dogshit, but he'd take him at 62. I think he's a possible great player that I'd take a swing on at 50.

We're 12 spots apart on this huge piece of shit that's comparable to McCluster in DJ's eyes, but that he'd still draft at 62.

this is ridiculous.
[Reply]
The Franchise 11:42 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
I mean, DJ is adamant that Watson is a 6'4" pile of dogshit, but he'd take him at 62. I think he's a possible great player that I'd take a swing on at 50.

We're 12 spots apart on this huge piece of shit that's comparable to McCluster in DJ's eyes, but that he'd still draft at 62.

this is ridiculous.
I know DJ is arguing against taking him at 50 but I think the anger comes from people wanting him at 29.
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:43 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
I know DJ is arguing against taking him at 50 but I think the anger comes from people wanting him at 29.
Well I think people need to be prepared for it. The guy is a workout warrior and Veach loves him some measurables.

We're not going to get everything we want. That never happens.
[Reply]
The Franchise 11:44 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Well I think people need to be prepared for it. The guy is a workout warrior and Veach loves him some measurables.

We're not going to get everything we want. That never happens.
Have you met DJ? :-)
[Reply]
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