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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>If the Chiefs took WR Christian Watson at 30
staylor26 02:01 PM 03-11-2022
How would you feel about that?
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DJ's left nut 09:59 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Plus all of the talk that he "looked good at the Senior Bowl".

In one on ones? You mean when it's pretty easy to make DBs look horrible if you have any kind of agility and speed?
I remember playing 3-person football as a kid when we couldn't get enough guys together for a decent game.

Rotating QB and you lined up on the other guy.

Man, if you got defended you SUCKED. Because it's freakin' 1 on 1 and you know where you're going while the other guy's just trying to react.

1v1s mean very very little, especially if it's the WR winning. Now if the DB is locking a guy up, that's impressive as hell.

But the drill is set up where the WR SHOULD win the rep and damn near every time.
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The Franchise 10:00 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
I'd rather have Watson at 29 than trading up.

But there's a handful of guys I'd rather have at 29, too.
I could possibly be talked into Burks if he's the best option at 29 or 30...but I'm pretty much out on WR in the 1st at all.
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Chris Meck 10:04 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
So I ask again - a quick twitch monster with physicality and speed to burn. The agility to toast guys off the line and get clean releases....

....and he had 15 carries in the FCS?

If he is all that is being claimed, do you think his coaches are THAT stupid? Those guys who saw him every single day and didn't think "yeah, this guy needs a dozen touches/gm"?

Or maybe, just maybe, this guy who we've seen nothing but highlights of and some callisthenic exercises isn't quite as good a football player as is being indicated?

I will bet ANYTHING that he's closer to Matt Jones than Randy Moss.

I'm not the one with the bad takes here, fellas. It's the glowing praise over his generational ceiling that's over the top. I'm saying an FCS receiver w/ less than 1,000 scrimmage yards might be worth consideration at the end of the 2nd round. That's DAMN high praise and an acknowledgement of his athleticism.

Meanwhile there are guys in this thread saying he has potential HoF skills.

Who's really overplaying their hands here?
I'd say you're the hyperbolic one; I'm looking at the kid as early as #50 but not advocating we take him in the first. I said if Veach does that, it means they've done their homework and he's THEIR GUY, and if that's so, so be it.

You're comparing him to McCluster and Todd what's his fuck. Like that's just...insane. Not even remotely the same kind of athlete. Not even close.

He's a rare raw animal. Sky really is the limit. of course, he also might suck.

we can debate whether the risk is worth it, but I'm saying at #50 that's worth it to me. That's all. meanwhile, you want to take a run stuffing DT in the first round that projects as a decent nose tackle. So whatever.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 10:04 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
Okay, I don't get the Travis Jones love AT ALL.

He's a run plugger, he's not particularly explosive, he's just a big 'ole lump 'o dude there in the middle, a nose tackle, and I don't get it. AT ALL.

Wyatt I get; his athleticism projects in a way that he might well be a better pro than he was a college player.

hell, I get Winfrey.

I DO NOT get Jones, and I would NOT take Jones over taking a big swing on a kid like Watson. If THAT is what you want to spend a first on, I think you're bonkers.
Among DTs he's in the 88th percentile in the 40, 77ths in the broad, 80th in the 3-cone.

You want to cite Christian Watson's athleticism at the combine then ignore the fact that Jones out-tests Leonard Williams literally across the board? Bigger, stronger, faster, quicker, more fluid.

I mean the board will dictate a lot of things. But even in an absolute worst case scenario circumstance, I wouldn't be taking Watson. He's nowhere close to my top 30 prospects. As I said previously he's maybe around my top 50 and even that is pushing it.

Jones is at that threshold level. It's close.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 10:06 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
I could possibly be talked into Burks if he's the best option at 29 or 30...but I'm pretty much out on WR in the 1st at all.
I came around late on Burks, but watching his tape I just keep seeing AJ Brown. And while that's more like a really good complimentary WR in my book, I think he translates to the NFL game, so I'd probably do it along with a DE.

And I'd STILL take a Watson/Pierce/Moore/Pickens/Tolbert someone else in round 2 or 3.
[Reply]
Chris Meck 10:07 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Among DTs he's in the 88th percentile in the 40, 77ths in the broad, 80th in the 3-cone.

You want to cite Christian Watson's athleticism at the combine then ignore the fact that Jones out-tests Leonard Williams literally across the board? Bigger, stronger, faster, quicker, more fluid.

I mean the board will dictate a lot of things. But even in an absolute worst case scenario circumstance, I wouldn't be taking Watson. He's nowhere close to my top 30 prospects. As I said previously he's maybe around my top 50 and even that is pushing it.

Jones is at that threshold level. It's close.
from NFL.Com:

Nose tackle with size and power that fuels his rumbling playing style. Jones lacks explosive get-off and hand twitch. He's unlikely to be a quick-win defender, but the anchor and upper-body power are present for gap-control duties once he gets his footwork and hand usage schooled up. He was a standout on a bad defense and more than held his own against the toughest competition he faced. Jones has the demeanor, traits and overall ability to become a successful run-plugger and potential starter in a two-gapping scheme.

That's not very exciting for a first rounder.
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htismaqe 10:08 AM 03-31-2022
All I know at this point is that the draft can't get here soon enough. I'm about burnt out on discussing it. :-)
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The Franchise 10:10 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
from NFL.Com:

Nose tackle with size and power that fuels his rumbling playing style. Jones lacks explosive get-off and hand twitch. He's unlikely to be a quick-win defender, but the anchor and upper-body power are present for gap-control duties once he gets his footwork and hand usage schooled up. He was a standout on a bad defense and more than held his own against the toughest competition he faced. Jones has the demeanor, traits and overall ability to become a successful run-plugger and potential starter in a two-gapping scheme.

That's not very exciting for a first rounder.
And here's Christian Watson's.

He plays hard and fast but needs to add a few more pounds and learn to impose his frame on the coverage. He's a field-stretching option requiring a linear route tree and projects as a capable WR3/4 with more work.
[Reply]
duncan_idaho 10:14 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
Plus all of the talk that he "looked good at the Senior Bowl".

In one on ones? You mean when it's pretty easy to make DBs look horrible if you have any kind of agility and speed?
Not limited to 1x1s, though.

He was widely regarded as having been the best receiver at the draft, and reports from people on the ground had him handling all types of coverage well.

That roster included a lot of other WRs we have talked about... Alec Pierce (who reportedly struggled with initial separation), Calvin Austin, Velus Jones, Tre Turner, noticeably.

That separates him a little, for me, from the guys in that tier.
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Chris Meck 10:14 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by The Franchise:
And here's Christian Watson's.

He plays hard and fast but needs to add a few more pounds and learn to impose his frame on the coverage. He's a field-stretching option requiring a linear route tree and projects as a capable WR3/4 with more work.
and yet, showed elite agility in combine tests, with top rated 3 cone. So no, I don't think so.
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DJ's left nut 10:15 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
from NFL.Com:

Nose tackle with size and power that fuels his rumbling playing style. Jones lacks explosive get-off and hand twitch. He's unlikely to be a quick-win defender, but the anchor and upper-body power are present for gap-control duties once he gets his footwork and hand usage schooled up. He was a standout on a bad defense and more than held his own against the toughest competition he faced. Jones has the demeanor, traits and overall ability to become a successful run-plugger and potential starter in a two-gapping scheme.

That's not very exciting for a first rounder.
Same 20 yard shuttle time and better 40 time than Poe.

Would you question Poe's get-off?

I've always thought broad jump was an excellent indicator of lower body explosion. Remember how we fawned over Poe's? Jones was 5 inches BETTER.

I'll acknowledge that Watson is a hell of an athlete - the numbers clearly support it. The numbers also clearly support that Jones is a well above average athlete, bordering on a great one, for a DT.
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htismaqe 10:15 AM 03-31-2022
I get not liking Watson's tape but how many guys that have come out in the last few years have had one of the highest RAS scores in 2 decades?
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DJ's left nut 10:16 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
and yet, showed elite agility in combine tests, with top rated 3 cone. So no, I don't think so.
Okay.

So we're going to ignore Watson's scouting report and stand on his combine tests.

And ignore Jones combine tests while standing on his scouting report?

Feels like you're REALLY picking your spots here...
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Chris Meck 10:23 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
Okay.

So we're going to ignore Watson's scouting report and stand on his combine tests.

And ignore Jones combine tests while standing on his scouting report?

Feels like you're REALLY picking your spots here...
No I'm just pointing out that you've developed an irrational viewpoint when in reality you've said you might take Watson at #62. I'd take him at 50. So all this hyperbole is nonsense.
[Reply]
DJ's left nut 10:23 AM 03-31-2022
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
I get not liking Watson's tape but how many guys that have come out in the last few years have had one of the highest RAS scores in 2 decades?
How's he compare to someone like, I dunno, Stephen Hill. Robert Davis. Javon Walker?

If we want to start talking about ceilings, lets at least be reasonable and talk about a dude like Walker. But Walker at least produced out of FSU with very similar measurables to Watson.
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