I have no answers, thanks for posting in case some others get in this situation.
I do remember this from Educational Psychology class which I've used on students and my own kids countless times:
You reinforce the actions that you acknowledge. Some kids just want attention whether it's bad or good. So far he has gotten attention because he's being a douche.
Take the initiative and compliment him on something. Don't be patronizing, pick something and be honest. You'd be amazed at what barriers will start breaking down. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mecca:
His aunt gave him his car..he pays for his phone and gas by donating plasma. I have never paid for any of that.
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Ah fuck, he's one of those .
He's gonna be a problem no matter what you do. And i'd bet he's gonna be a problem well into his 30's. Make the decision that's best for you and your ol' lady's piece of mind, but understand that it's not over and will never be over. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bearcat:
I should have clarified, but not Slayer... he always had a "be better than Bearcat" thing growing up that helped drive him, heh.
Oh, good. I'm glad you were there to guide him as a cautionary tale. [Reply]
Originally Posted by notorious:
I would listen to Tox. Reading his input on stuff like this over the years has changed my outlook in many areas.
Dude has been through some shit, and has great insight.
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Ah ****, he's one of those .
He's gonna be a problem no matter what you do. And i'd bet he's gonna be a problem well into his 30's. Make the decision that's best for you and your ol' lady's piece of mind, but understand that it's not over and will never be over.
I'm not a parent and have no interest in playing one on TV. However, my view is that you probably shouldn't go straight to changing the locks on the doors but instead lay down the law on the criteria for being allowed to stay. Make the rules strict and concrete. Then, when he eventually breaks those rules, you can at least fall back on that as the reasons for doing it.
If you do it without warning, it will be seen as arbitrary. If there are rules and he breaks them, that's on him (though I fully understand he won't see it that way). [Reply]
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
I've seen "tough love" work (for the kid) once in my life. And that kid came from a middle class, two parent household who had their shit together, and that kid went straight into the military.
Every other time ive seen it, it hasn't helped but make things worse. Destructive people don't become less destructive when there's no supervision. They just fall further into their own self-destruction.
Mecca's wife has to decide if she's willing to ride that wave or not. As Rainman said, maybe it's easier to deal with his issues from a distance than up close. Sometimes it's better to simply cut-bait to make your own quality of life improvements. But prepared to deal with that and what comes with it.
It kinda worked with my stepsister, but part of that issue may have been that her getting tossed out of the house got her away from my whack-job, alcoholic step mother.
And even at that, it took about 10-12 years of trial/error and stops and starts. By her early 30s she'd finally rounded into form with a steady job and a couple of kids (has lived with her boyfriend for a decade or so; took her back and adopted her son after she cheated on him with...{sigh}...a drummer...as a waitress...jesus, be more of a cliche).
Someone mentioned previously that there's no an easy answer and that whatever path you (edit: now speaking to Mecca after remembering after I posted that I quoted Detox) choose, it's probably going to be a loooooooong road. Even if you try to cut him out altogether, you probably can't. And once it gets this far gone, it's just a real hard ship to turn. Unfortunately your runway there is always shorter than you realize. I can be a little hard on my kids on occasion and have insisted on the 'respect your elders' thing since they were 2 but that's because my step-sister was a bitchy little twat by the time she was 5. Her being a disaster was a foregone conclusion before she got to elementary school.
And you hear stories all the time about good kids who just meet the wrong person and within 6 months all hell breaks loose. Those can be easier to deal with than the long, slow slides. But they can also go to hell a bit more catastrophically. At the very least, it doesn't seem like your step-son presents a danger to himself or others.
My kids are too young for any great insights here other than my boy is a temperamental shit and I learned with him that I have to talk to him. Direct action or obvious irritation just has him going over top of me. When he gets loud, I get quiet. If he gets more spun up, I get more monotone and measured in my delivery. If he gets more rambly, I get more succinct. And eventually we try to circle around into a conversation of some sort. He's nothing like the 2 girls and requires a far different approach to get through to him. It's possible that some of the suggestions made above will be useful - measured, deliberate, cool-headed responses and attempts to re-direct energy towards solutions.
The problem you face is that if your wife is at her wits end, you may struggle to get any momentum with her (and if she's not going to re-engage, you're drawing dead anyway, IMO). [Reply]
If he doesn’t believe or see his responsibility or role in how things are going for him, then doing something drastic like kicking him out will only reinforce what he already believes, that you just don’t support him, care about him, love him, etc.
I think you also have to ask is he actually unhappy with things. Is he distressed about no job or school or anything? Does he care about those things as motivators at all? Some people are just more comfortable with chaos and seek it out and create it. It allows for ambiguity, avoidance of personal internal issues, and so much more.
I’m guessing you aren’t sure how to motivate him, and it’s entirely likely he doesn’t even know. It’s hard to even express how many factors could be at play here. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Mecca:
I got up earlier than I had to, to tell him to get up for work...he still wouldn't get up.
I asked him if he needed counseling to which he refused..
He's just super unpleasant all the time which compounds it.
yeah that doesn't sound surprising. I'm not saying he does have mental health issues, I don't know anything about your family situation, I'm not a doctor, etc. But like reckless spending, shirking all responsibilities, mood swings stuff like that can be symptoms of a deeper problem just being an asshole. And like a lot of times people with mental health issues refuse treatment or even acceptance that there even is a problem, which only makes it harder to treat to get someone help.
you mentioned your wife talked to her therapist? have you considered sitting down with the therapist with your wife and discussion a plan? not even a plan to kick the kid out, just a plan to like set boundaries and things you are willing to help with and things you are not and how to enforce those boundaries? it's pretty clear you and your wife love the kid but it's important that you maintain yourself and not get lost in your kid's problem if that makes sense. I'm not saying cut all ties and tell him to fuck off, but this situation doesn't sound healthy and it doesn't sound like there's an easy fix.
Originally Posted by Mecca:
Dude she would like to strangle him..he's a giant piece of shit to her all the time.
She could literally say "it's nice today" and he's go into a 10 minute diatribe about how stupid she is for thinking that. And then act like she not allowed an opinion...yet if he's ever spoken to about anything important unless you're patting his ass he goes into the "don't yell at me" shit when no one's yelling and throws a pity party..
To be fair also he's super manipulative and a therapist told me he's at best borderline sociopathic.
Your stepson sounds like a clone of my step daughter. My wife had her when she was in HS, wasn't ready for it, especially with a knuckle head like this girl.
I see a lot of similarities, and sadly when you have external forces feeding the beast (her parents actually try to cover for the girl), it just snowballs downhill. The girl is now 30. Had her own kid around age 19, and still doesn't really have a job or anything to her name. My inlaws have some rental properties, so they let the mooch live in that rent free. She's as lazy as it gets, down to poor personal hygiene. She's wrecked about every car that was given to her, and takes advantage of every situation she can. She will literally put in three units of effort for a grift, when she could instead put in two units of effort for something honest. But thats just who she is, and it sounds a lot like your problem.
I have no fix-it story, because that safety net has always been in place for her and she knows it, and enough time has gone by that I think she's a lost cause honestly. Someday when my in-laws either have nothing left to give, or they pass on, and her free ride is completely over, I have no idea what she's going to do. She has zero chance of standing on her own two feet.
All I can say is, if your relationship is strong with your wife, support her and stand your ground with him if she does boot him. And if she doesn't, make sure you have a good safe to lock up your valuables and start to cut the cord where you can. [Reply]
Disclaimer, don't have kids, never had kids but my 2 cents is this. He's 19. That's a legal adult. You need to dot i's and cross t's. Doing a formal eviction process is probably necessary in today's society as well as posting non-responsibility to avoid his debts rolling back onto you. Heard a lawyer talking on the radio the other day about how his goal is to find any reason to tie his insurance to your insurance when dealing with claims to grow the "pool of money". You better MAKE SURE momma is 120% on this because I have seen occasions similar that when it finally comes to a head, blood is thicker than a wedding band. [Reply]