I admit I realize I have been overestimating him like many others. He is quite good but elite he is not and he definitely hasn't earned his "cool" moniker. And I have heard multiple pundits now say, even after yesterday he is a better QB than Mahomes, but Mahomes is the better player. Talk about moving the goalposts to fit your narrative.
I will give him credit for the Brady comparison though as he has absolutely been carried by his defense and luck like Brady was in his earlier years in winning playoff games. But Burrow isn't as clutch as Brady was even back then.
And for those who think he is even close to Mahomes:
Burrow 0 times 30 point postseason games to Mahomes 8
300 yard games is 1 to 7
TD drives in fourth quarter is a whopping 0 to 14
Good old Nick Wright has more in the video but here is a picture with the most relevant part of Burrow's fourth quarter stats in the postseason. It's remarkable the Bengals have won any games honestly in the postseason.
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
And as much credit as people wanna give him for being this Brady like savant, Spags made him look like a rookie.
What was that i heard, ZERO sustained drives over 8 plays against us on Sunday? 2 Ints and what easily coulda been 2 more.
Burrow threw a ball right at McDuffie who barely even moved off his spot in a base cover 2.
Dude's game basically amounted to two prayer balls in which his receivers made excellent plays. Plays that most receivers won't make.
So no, spare me this crap about him being intellectually elite.
^^ I have to agree with this as I believe Burrow still has some learning to do diagnosing and checking into different calls at times (he is very good for only playing in the league 2 full seasons but still has more to do).
- Late in the 4th, Bengals had a 2nd & 3 and then a 3rd & 3. Burrow throws two straight deep balls with lower percentage chances of success. Why do that and not check into something for you know, moving the chains?
- on Bengals last 3rd and 8, Spags brilliantly had Chris Jones on the outside out wide with the rest of the line skewed right which forced Hakeem Adeniji to be on an island against Jones. Burrow needs to see that and move a player to help chip or check into a different play to account for that but he didn't. Instead, Jones blows right by Adeniji and plants Burrow into the dirt again for the punt.
Burrow is very, very good but still has some improvement to be made.
The elite debate, I think it's relative to what you're comparing it to. If you are just going by who's elite in the current game, then yes he belongs.
If you're talking all-time or over different eras, then no, not yet at least.
For current era QBs, I would say yes elite as it's
1. Mahomes
2a/2b Allen & Burrow
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Judging an individual player's talent by using team metrics just doesn't make any sense.
To a point. No one doubts his talent, he just lacks that “it” factor that elite or even great QBs have. I have yet to see any sort of that from him. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bengal Billy:
^^ I have to agree with this as I believe Burrow still has some learning to do diagnosing and checking into different calls at times (he is very good for only playing in the league 2 full seasons but still has more to do).
- Late in the 4th, Bengals had a 2nd & 3 and then a 3rd & 3. Burrow throws two straight deep balls with lower percentage chances of success. Why do that and not check into something for you know, moving the chains?
- on Bengals last 3rd and 8, Spags brilliantly had Chris Jones on the outside out wide with the rest of the line skewed right which forced Hakeem Adeniji to be on an island against Jones. Burrow needs to see that and move a player to help chip or check into a different play to account for that but he didn't. Instead, Jones blows right by Adeniji and plants Burrow into the dirt again for the punt.
Burrow is very, very good but still has some improvement to be made.
The elite debate, I think it's relative to what you're comparing it to. If you are just going by who's elite in the current game, then yes he belongs.
If you're talking all-time or over different eras, then no, not yet at least.
For current era QBs, I would say yes elite as it's
1. Mahomes
2a/2b Allen & Burrow
All-time,, no
Losing Higgins and Boyd could fix that. Mahomes struggled a lot with that early in his career. He eventually started taking what the defense gave him. Losing Tyreek though was the best thing for Mahomes as it forced him to take the shorter throws and move the chains vs the "F it Tyreek down there somewhere". Burrow will need to play with less talent at the WR position to truly learn that as he can do the same thing with Chase and Higgins and Boyd. [Reply]
Originally Posted by chiefzilla1501:
Wait, what? Burrow has as many playoff wins in a few seasons as rivers did a long career. And more than Matt Ryan’s career. These guys were never ever considered in T1 and were lucky if they were even T2. And these guys played with loaded talent. Rivers initial supporting cast was absurdly talented.
If they played in todays game rivers would be on Herbert’s level. And Matt Ryan would be on a stafford level, maybe a little better than cousins. These guys aren’t even remotely close to burrow. Without a doubt he’s qb2 and there’s a big distance to qb3, and that’s considering that Allen has been pretty decent and productive.
I’d say it’s more than fair to say at worst he’s Brees. and that’s pretty elite.
Rivers and Ryan both had multiple regular seasons as good or better than Burrow’s two seasons yet they aren’t considered elite nor where they at the time. That’s exactly the point. You can’t just say they aren’t close to Burrow because reasons. Burrow’s regular season don’t stand above Rivers or Ryan few year stretches by any means. And I’m giving him credit for being the QB while the team wins playoff games but in those wins he has been a game manager at best given he still hasn’t led a TD drive in the fourth in his post season career. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
who said anything about that?
I said 'on a trajectory', as in they are playing in such a way as to end up hall of famers. And that's not a stretch to say.
Now, if you guys want to go full reerun and say hall of famers aren't elite, then that's your business, and you guys have fun arguing utter horseshit, but I'll just bow on out and you can have your fantasy world arguments.
And sometimes guys are 'elite' for a season, like Matt Ryan, but unable to sustain that. Sometimes guys get injured and all off, or age out, and are no longer elite, etc.
But for the last couple of seasons, there is no question that Mahomes, Burrow, and Allen have been pretty fucking elite and to argue against that is just nonsense.
Allen played hurt, and Hurts is hurt now, but both when 100% were favorites to win MVP. Now, Hurts was elite most of one season; If he can repeat that another year or two, then you can add him into that top 5 'elite' class.
You guys are so blinded by Mahomes that you can't acknowledge greatness in others. These guys are absolutely elite, and sometimes they're going to beat us, Mahomes or no. They're great. Allen has. Burrow has. It's a fact.
I wouldn't trade our guy for anyone, but there are other guys that are also great.
This is a stupid argument and I'm out.
You said exactly what I said. Play semantics all you like but what you might do or become (trajectory is same thing) doesn’t make you elite. It shouldn’t factor at all because what you do in two years doesn’t help your team today. Is Rodgers elite right now? After all he’s going to be in the HOF. [Reply]
Originally Posted by tredadda:
Is there a QB in the league that gets more love for doing so little as Sherbert? What has he done to justify being top 5?
He has a ton of arm talent. I think where he lacks is mentally. Not the ability to process, but handling stressful, important situations.
He reminds me a lot of Carson Palmer. Very introverted personalities. [Reply]
Originally Posted by rfaulk34:
He has a ton of arm talent. I think where he lacks is mentally. Not the ability to process, but handling stressful, important situations.
He reminds me a lot of Carson Palmer. Very introverted personalities.
By and large this is the biggest separator between the best QBs and the good or lesser ones. [Reply]
Originally Posted by mr. tegu:
Rivers and Ryan both had multiple regular seasons as good or better than Burrow’s two seasons yet they aren’t considered elite nor where they at the time. That’s exactly the point. You can’t just say they aren’t close to Burrow because reasons. Burrow’s regular season don’t stand above Rivers or Ryan few year stretches by any means. And I’m giving him credit for being the QB while the team wins playoff games but in those wins he has been a game manager at best given he still hasn’t led a TD drive in the fourth in his post season career.
First let’s just agree Ryan is nowhere in the same class. He had an outlier Super Bowl year. Other than that he was nowhere near top tier. A lot of stat padded seasons. An above average regular season qb and unremarkable playoff qb
Rivers I can understand. But if these two were largely comparable then playoff performance creates clear separation between the two. Even in his early years when he had an elite team around him. Maybe you have questions about if burrow can carry the team on his back in these kinds of games. But it’s hard to say at this stage of his career that he finds ways to lose like Rivers did.
Rivers was barely considered even remotely in the same class as Brady, Peyton, Brees or rodgers. His lack of playoff success took him off entirely. Meanwhile I don’t think anyone would hesitate to say it’s mahomes and burrow, and maybe Allen, then everybody else. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Bengal Billy:
^^ I have to agree with this as I believe Burrow still has some learning to do diagnosing and checking into different calls at times (he is very good for only playing in the league 2 full seasons but still has more to do).
- Late in the 4th, Bengals had a 2nd & 3 and then a 3rd & 3. Burrow throws two straight deep balls with lower percentage chances of success. Why do that and not check into something for you know, moving the chains?
- on Bengals last 3rd and 8, Spags brilliantly had Chris Jones on the outside out wide with the rest of the line skewed right which forced Hakeem Adeniji to be on an island against Jones. Burrow needs to see that and move a player to help chip or check into a different play to account for that but he didn't. Instead, Jones blows right by Adeniji and plants Burrow into the dirt again for the punt.
Burrow is very, very good but still has some improvement to be made.
The elite debate, I think it's relative to what you're comparing it to. If you are just going by who's elite in the current game, then yes he belongs.
If you're talking all-time or over different eras, then no, not yet at least.
For current era QBs, I would say yes elite as it's
1. Mahomes
2a/2b Allen & Burrow
All-time,, no
I get frustrated with Mahomes when he goes for a deep ball on 3rd & short or 3rd & medium. But I also noticed Tom Brady & Aaron Rodgers doing the same type of low percentage stuff on 3rd down this season. So I am not sure any of the young QB’s will truly grow out of that tendency. [Reply]
