I admit I realize I have been overestimating him like many others. He is quite good but elite he is not and he definitely hasn't earned his "cool" moniker. And I have heard multiple pundits now say, even after yesterday he is a better QB than Mahomes, but Mahomes is the better player. Talk about moving the goalposts to fit your narrative.
I will give him credit for the Brady comparison though as he has absolutely been carried by his defense and luck like Brady was in his earlier years in winning playoff games. But Burrow isn't as clutch as Brady was even back then.
And for those who think he is even close to Mahomes:
Burrow 0 times 30 point postseason games to Mahomes 8
300 yard games is 1 to 7
TD drives in fourth quarter is a whopping 0 to 14
Good old Nick Wright has more in the video but here is a picture with the most relevant part of Burrow's fourth quarter stats in the postseason. It's remarkable the Bengals have won any games honestly in the postseason.
Originally Posted by mr. tegu:
You don’t get to be elite because of what you might do. That’s ridiculous. On the field results are all that matters. Otherwise it’s just potential.
who said anything about that?
I said 'on a trajectory', as in they are playing in such a way as to end up hall of famers. And that's not a stretch to say.
Now, if you guys want to go full reerun and say hall of famers aren't elite, then that's your business, and you guys have fun arguing utter horseshit, but I'll just bow on out and you can have your fantasy world arguments.
And sometimes guys are 'elite' for a season, like Matt Ryan, but unable to sustain that. Sometimes guys get injured and all off, or age out, and are no longer elite, etc.
But for the last couple of seasons, there is no question that Mahomes, Burrow, and Allen have been pretty fucking elite and to argue against that is just nonsense.
Allen played hurt, and Hurts is hurt now, but both when 100% were favorites to win MVP. Now, Hurts was elite most of one season; If he can repeat that another year or two, then you can add him into that top 5 'elite' class.
You guys are so blinded by Mahomes that you can't acknowledge greatness in others. These guys are absolutely elite, and sometimes they're going to beat us, Mahomes or no. They're great. Allen has. Burrow has. It's a fact.
I wouldn't trade our guy for anyone, but there are other guys that are also great.
Originally Posted by Chris Meck:
who said anything about that?
I said 'on a trajectory', as in they are playing in such a way as to end up hall of famers. And that's not a stretch to say.
Now, if you guys want to go full reerun and say hall of famers aren't elite, then that's your business, and you guys have fun arguing utter horseshit, but I'll just bow on out and you can have your fantasy world arguments.
And sometimes guys are 'elite' for a season, like Matt Ryan, but unable to sustain that. Sometimes guys get injured and all off, or age out, and are no longer elite, etc.
But for the last couple of seasons, there is no question that Mahomes, Burrow, and Allen have been pretty fucking elite and to argue against that is just nonsense.
Allen played hurt, and Hurts is hurt now, but both when 100% were favorites to win MVP. Now, Hurts was elite most of one season; If he can repeat that another year or two, then you can add him into that top 5 'elite' class.
You guys are so blinded by Mahomes that you can't acknowledge greatness in others. These guys are absolutely elite, and sometimes they're going to beat us, Mahomes or no. They're great. Allen has. Burrow has. It's a fact.
I wouldn't trade our guy for anyone, but there are other guys that are also great.
This is a stupid argument and I'm out.
I agree that Burrow is elite. Strange thing is his QBR grade has been lower than expected to be honest. I think QBR is more accurate than passer rating, since QBR accounts for passing, rushing, clutch plays, etc. These are the QBR rankings for the main 3 guys:
Mahomes: #1 in 2018 & 2022, #2 in 2019 & 2020, #5 in 2021
Allen: #2 in 2022, #3 in 2020, #6 in 2021, #24 in 2018 & 2019
Burrow: #10 in 2022, #12 in 2021, #24 in 2020
Even a "bad" year for Mahomes was Top 5, which is pretty amazing. Now if we want to remove the rushing element and focus only on passing aspect of QBR, here's what it looks like:
Mahomes: #1 in 2018, 2019, 2020, & 2022. #5 in 2021
Allen: #2 in 2020, #6 in 2022, #7 in 2021, #24 in 2019, #31 in 2018
Burrow: #9 in 2022, #11 in 2021, #21 in 2020
Allen's improvement from 2019 to 2020 is pretty incredible, gotta give him some big props for that. That was also the year they added Stefon Diggs, which helped quite a bit. [Reply]
For me being a "student of the game" is 'essential' in great QBing. The reason I put Herbert above Allen is you can see in Herbert's play he is further along than Allen as is Burrow. Not doubt Josh's athleticism saves him a lot and he gets wins from his athleticism BUT that only goes so far. Allen melted down towards the end of the season and playoffs because the cerebral side of him was limited, he had no answers especially in the Bengals game in how they were scheming him. This is NOT to say he can't get there because I believe he will but it is just taking him longer. [Reply]
Originally Posted by mr. tegu:
Ryan and Rivers are not elite despite having seasons as good or better than Burrow. And I don’t think more than their cities fans would argue otherwise.
Elite can’t just be a few good/great regular seasons unless you have hardware or at the very LEAST amazing postseason performance with some bad luck. Burrow only has the regular season which isn’t enough considering he’s not even blowing out the competition in that.
Wait, what? Burrow has as many playoff wins in a few seasons as rivers did a long career. And more than Matt Ryan’s career. These guys were never ever considered in T1 and were lucky if they were even T2. And these guys played with loaded talent. Rivers initial supporting cast was absurdly talented.
If they played in todays game rivers would be on Herbert’s level. And Matt Ryan would be on a stafford level, maybe a little better than cousins. These guys aren’t even remotely close to burrow. Without a doubt he’s qb2 and there’s a big distance to qb3, and that’s considering that Allen has been pretty decent and productive.
I’d say it’s more than fair to say at worst he’s Brees. and that’s pretty elite. [Reply]
I think Chase is the next Jerry Rice so he's got that going for him. Chace makes an average quarterback elite. I love our guys but Chase is on another level. Give Chase to Mahomes and we'd put 50 burgers up weekly. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rasputin:
I think Chase is the next Jerry Rice so he's got that going for him. Chace makes an average quarterback elite. I love our guys but Chase is on another level. Give Chase to Mahomes and we'd put 50 burgers up weekly.
Originally Posted by Chiefshrink:
1. Mahomes
2. Burrow
3a. Herbert
3b. Allen
For me being a "student of the game" is 'essential' in great QBing. The reason I put Herbert above Allen is you can see in Herbert's play he is further along than Allen as is Burrow. Not doubt Josh's athleticism saves him a lot and he gets wins from his athleticism BUT that only goes so far. Allen melted down towards the end of the season and playoffs because the cerebral side of him was limited, he had no answers especially in the Bengals game in how they were scheming him. This is NOT to say he can't get there because I believe he will but it is just taking him longer.
Herbert? He is not even close to top 5. He has never won a must win game. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Chiefshrink:
1. Mahomes
2. Burrow
3a. Herbert
3b. Allen
For me being a "student of the game" is 'essential' in great QBing. The reason I put Herbert above Allen is you can see in Herbert's play he is further along than Allen as is Burrow. Not doubt Josh's athleticism saves him a lot and he gets wins from his athleticism BUT that only goes so far. Allen melted down towards the end of the season and playoffs because the cerebral side of him was limited, he had no answers especially in the Bengals game in how they were scheming him. This is NOT to say he can't get there because I believe he will but it is just taking him longer.
Is there a QB in the league that gets more love for doing so little as Sherbert? What has he done to justify being top 5? [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rasputin:
I think Chase is the next Jerry Rice so he's got that going for him. Chace makes an average quarterback elite. I love our guys but Chase is on another level. Give Chase to Mahomes and we'd put 50 burgers up weekly.
Huge bar to set for him as Rice is easily the best WR of all time. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Rasputin:
I think Chase is the next Jerry Rice so he's got that going for him. Chace makes an average quarterback elite. I love our guys but Chase is on another level. Give Chase to Mahomes and we'd put 50 burgers up weekly.
Originally Posted by Detoxing:
Judging an individual player's talent by using team metrics just doesn't make any sense.
It's not really about team metrics, at least not for me.
I've watched the guy play a ton and he's got an elite arm and prototypical measurables. He also has virtually no grasp of situational football and when he really needs to carry that team, he can't.
There's more to QB's than just athletic talent. The best of the best have something more. Mahomes has an extra gear. Burrow does too. Allen probably does too.