Was Wade really any more of a star with Lebron? That’s a better comparison than Bosh.

Wade’s most memorable year and season were when he won it as the guy. You can’t get any bigger than that.
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Dude's won 2 championships on 2 different teams and been Finals MVP both times.

I kinda feel like the legacy from a basketball perspective is set. The only way to truly elevate it would be if he won for the Lakers or Knicks; crown jewel franchises that are on the struggle bus. The exposure would breath new life into what he did in the previous markets and really give it even more juice from a historical lens.

Now the 'what happens if they fail' aspect is always fair when you're on a Lebron team. Because you're right - Lebron's not taking that bullet.

But...does he have a choice? He's 9 years older than Davis and, what, 7 years older than Kawhi? He'll be on a 2 year deal with an option while Kawhi will be on at least a 4 year deal and Davis (assuming he re-signs) will be on one as well.

And let's not ignore the 'should the Lakers trade Lebron' talk from just a couple of months ago. Lebron took a shocking amount of heat in LA this year.

If Leonard goes to LAL and alongside Davis they both stay healthy and productive but they lose - weeeeeell, I wouldn't be so quick to just assume Lebron has the juice to throw them under the bus this time.

"The Don, rest in peace, was slippin'. Ten years ago could I have gotten to him?..."

Rich Paul's no Michael Corleone. If Lebron continues to decline and Kawhi/Davis do their part, Paul won't be able to pull Lebron off the mat and I'm not sure Lebron could do it on his own anymore.
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That's why I said arguably...but ok...let's say Top 5 if that makes you feel better, doesn't change the point.
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Winning even one more ring with either the Clippers/Raptors would be better for his legacy/brand than winning 2 or 3 in Lebron’s shadow on a super team with AD. They just don’t hold the same weight.
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To hardcore basketball fans? Sure. We also view the year he wont it as 'the guy' as a stain on the league and an abomination to the sport. God, watching him just drive out of control and get bailed out from the refs time and time again was the most excruciating thing of my life.

But was he really a bigger star to the casual NBA fan then than he was when Lebron showed up? When ESPN had it's own page dedicated to 'The Heatles'? Man, I don't think so. When you're playing for the biggest ticket in the game (which he would be in LAL, but not if he went to LAC) and you're making big time plays - you just get more attention.

I think it's a fair question and not an obvious answer, but to me the answer is LAL provided that they win.
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Not even arguable, and I don’t think he was even top 5. Top 10 for sure though.
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Maybe.

But I guess you have a higher view of LAC's chances than I do. I think the Clippers are in the conversation for a championship of Leonard goes there, but only IF the Lakers don't make a counter-move of their own to get their 3rd star in there.

If the Lakers are rolling with Lebron, Davis, Kyrie and Kuzma - that team's flat better than LAC. By a lot.

Who would the second best player on that team be? Montrez Harrell? I just think you're letting a better than expected record influence your opinion on their true talent level. That was a well coached, hard nosed, super game/competitive squad. But they aren't really that talented. I don't think Leonard makes them a title contender unless a lot of stuff goes wonky in the West.
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I don’t think they’d just be getting Kawhi if he goes there.
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I never said MJ took a bunch of scrubs to the championship.. Basketball is a team game. No one can do it by themselves. The point I was trying to make is that in the 90s there was way more loyalty and competitiveness than there is today.

It's also a joke that you mentioned Longley like he was a great or even average center.
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And we already know you think more highly of Jimmy Butler than I do, so I guess that's our distinction.

But when the rubber hits the road on Butler, I think he's a money player. If the Rockets would do a sign and trade for him where he gets the supermax from Philly, he gets another year and $50 million on his deal.

If the Clippers wouldn't swim in those waters (or the 76ers don't like their assets as much as the Houston deal), he may choose the Rockets and that money over the conventional UFA route with LAC.

And doesn't bringing a guy like Butler with him to LAC give him similar 'legacy' issues to joining a declining Lebron in LAL?

Eh, whatever. Like I said, that's just such a weird guy to predict. And I'm obviously biased anyway. That whole situation will be what it be...
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Clippers have a ton of cap space maybe up to $71 million so they will be able to get 2 max players +. I think Kawhi stays but then again who really knows with that guy.
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Did Kobe demand a trade to go play with his buddies? No, no he did not. He was trying to engineer a deal to Chicago because he liked their role players. If my memory served it came apart when LAL insisted on Deng being in the deal and Bryant invoked his NTC if Deng came to LA because he liked him as a complementary player. So the Lakers told him to get over it and play basketball. It worked out okay...

Now I generally agree with you here as it relates to loyalty (though I think you're being a bit pedantic with your 'didn't get drafted by the Lakers' remark - he was drafted for the Lakers). Kobe wasn't loyal to the Lakers until the last 5-6 years and even then....was he really? Or did he just like that god-awful 'thank-you' contract they gave him?

No, Kobe was about competing. And when he felt that the Lakers were more interested in the pageantry than the competition, he wanted out.

But all he ever wanted was a shot to get on the court and go toe to toe with guys. I miss the hell out of that guy, even if I can acknowledge his flaws as a ballplayer. I loved his fire.
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DJ, don’t remind me that we missed out in Kobe because of Luol fucking Deng.

Thanks.
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And now you're getting into why I say 'get your stars'.

What if Kawhi stays? And then Durant/Kyrie go to the Nets? And LAC has nothing more to offer Russell than the Lakers do financially. Butler takes the sign and trade to Houston. Kemba looks Boston bound.

So....what now? Tobias Harris?

Because that's literally the last guy standing who you'd even consider a max level player and even that's a reach. So what, Harris and Boogie? YEAH!!!!

There is more money out there than talent right now. That's why I applaud LAL for what they did with Davis - man, quit spinning the wheel and take your chances. You actively went and acquired the best player that will switch teams this offseason, IMO. Good on ya. It cost more than it might have as a FA but the alternative is what's gonna happen to SOMEBODY in FA this offseason and probably a couple of somebodies. Woe be the New York Knicks, man. And a team or two just like 'em that is gonna have money but nobody that wants to take it so they'll just start showering riches on the Al Horford, Julius Randle class of player. I'm sorry, but I just don't see you winning a championship w/ 40% of your cap tied up in Brooke Lopez and Khris Middleton.
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Pippen made the NBA 50 best players in history team........
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