hes only got 2 arb years left right? Then he hits FA? 2 years of him for 6 years of Carlson plus more players you’d rather not give up.

Thor would make us a legit contender for sure but I’d rather wait till Carlson and Gorman are here to sell the future for now trades. We are in 1st place and playing well but, no one in this thread thinks we are ready to beat LA in a playoff series. DJ, you think Thor allows us to beat LA in a 7 game series?
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You're not getting Thor because of this season. If that's what you're worried about, you go after Bumgarner.

You get Thor if you're confident you can extend him this off-season and unfuck him; get him off the regression train somehow. I'm not sure you can have him 'postseason ready' this season, there is just too much shit that's gone wrong there over the last 18 months or so. He's really a mess.

But Syndergaard, when he's right, is capable of being the best pitcher in baseball. His raw stuff hasn't backed up from where it was when he was a 23 yr old in 2016 and was actually making pitches; I think he's physically sound. I just think he's lost all feel for his slider (which is damn near impossible; sliders are easy pitches to maintain) and I think he's gotten frustrated by the situation in NYM and is kinda jaking it. Or losing focus.

We have given untold numbers of pitchers shit for being 'soft' on the Cardinals, but most of them just lack the necessary arsenal to be as consistently dominant as people expect. Syndergaard, OTOH, has the arsenal to wipe out anyone. He just has a temper or a short attention span because there are waaaaaaaaay too many times he'll have just a little stumble and start throwing cockshots after looking great the first time or two through the order.

He may be an actual headcase. But if you get that ironed out, you have the chance to acquire the first true ace this franchise has had since Carpenter and he'd be 26 years old.

Yeah, that's worth Carlson. And let's not forget - I was WAY ahead of everyone else on Carlson. Y'all go digging through the archives and I've been singing his praises (and Flaherty's) since we drafted 'em. Love that kid. But Reyes is toast and Flaherty's ideally situated as a #2. If you can have a long-term top of your rotation built around Thor/Flaherty...that's a puncher's chance every year.
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Just read that Giants aren't expected to trade Bumgarner.
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yeah I hate this moved up deadline. Doesn’t give teams a chance to decide. I know we are 100 games into the season but all trades are lopsided to the sellers at the deadline. 90% of NL teams are within 5 games of a WC. Doesn’t make for many sellers. Drives the price up. And the waiver wire trades are out now.

I’d rather see more wheeling and dealing for the stretch run. I don’t get why MLB purposely made that less likely. How did that make the game better?
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Them not trading him and the Royals deciding not to trade Merrifield are 2 really dumbass decisions.

I cant imagine for a second that a team with the 4th lowest run differential in the NL actually thinks this run they are on is going to continue with that team. It's like when everyone thought the Mariners were the best team in baseball after the first month.
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even a baseball fan that only pays attention during the playoffs knows Thor’s raw talent. Best in baseball upside. I’d be Leary of him on our team because of Martinez. Of course he doesn’t have that level of talent but he did have a #1 upside. He lacks focus. Is a head case. Yadi took him under his wing . The Cardinals invested in him. He’s still a headcase. You think the Cardinals can get Thor back in track?
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It's a logically poor decision on the Giants part, to be sure (IF they're not just blowing smoke).

But you have to remember that Bochy is leaving and he's a legend there. This is his last season and they seen an opportunity to give him a last ride before he goes. Now the reason I think they're probably just blowing smoke is that the management structure there is brand new and has little attachment to Bochy or their previous successes.

But ownership does. And if ownership tells Zaidi that they don't want him dealing Bumgarner then that's what he'll do. And if they don't deal him, they'll give him the QO and almost certainly get a draft pick back. Granted, that draft pick isn't immensely valuable but if they can't get a genuine top 100 pick for Bum, then they aren't losing out on that much by not dealing him and taking the pick instead.

Merrifield is a different animal though - he's simply on a different timeline than their competitive cycle and with his contract/control, they could absolutely get a strong young player or two who is more inline with their next era of competitiveness. The Royals needs to be actively shopping Merrifield.

But Bum...well I see what the Giants are doing there even if it isn't the thing I'd do.
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Man, the fuck if I know.

But I will say that I trust this field staff quite a bit. I like Maddux, I like Shildt. I also don't think Martinez is a headcase, I think he may just be lazy and lacks some drive so he just doesn't do the things he needs to do between starts (or in the offseason) to fully maximize his ability.

The headcase label really irritates me because it's almost always used incorrectly and lazily. Lynn was just the most ridiculous example of it (dude was friggen nails in leverage situations as a rookie in relief and people are trying to argue he's soft...ridiculous) but there are plenty others. Baseball is so self-selecting that you get very few guys make the show who can be mentally broken.

But there are guys who qualify. Armando Benitez was the first guy I remember who clearly qualified in my eyes - dude would give up a hit and just get mad and start throwing everything harder, straighter and right down the middle. He'd just lose his focus and fall apart.

Martinez doesn't do that. He's had some wobbly appearances of late but many of those have just been grounders finding space. Meanwhile he's still out there attacking righties and playing aggressive, focused defense. He just hasn't done enough work to make himself a challenge to lefties and that's less about being a headcase and more about just not being the kind of Type A driven personality we'd hoped he'd be.
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If you want to see what a headcase looks like I'm sure CJ Edwards could be pried lose from the Cubs AAA team.
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Agreed. I hadn’t realized until now there is now no longer a waiver trade period/deadline as well.
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Ya I just can't see why on earth they are holding on to him. He's 30 years old and just look around at this market right now. There is no one even close to Merrifield on the market and even the guys that are on the market they are all rentals. Moving forward there are guys that are free agents that teams could reasonably say if I cant get Merrifield for x amount then I'll just give this guy some cash and move on or more guys that are starting to enter into their final years on their contracts that would overlap with a Merrifield and thats all assuming he continues to be a 5+ WAR player.
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Because the offers they have received aren’t in line with the return they should get for 4.5 years of a 4-5 win player who is going to cost you at most $30 million over that period (and who you can get away from after 3.5/$18.5 million if he falls off a cliff at 33).

It’s easy to say “trade him.” Finding the team with the need and urgency to pay the price is another.

The Royals can and should hold out for a top 30 prospect as the centerpiece, paired with at least one more top 100 guy and an interesting add on or two.

Your Cubs don’t even have the ammo to make that offer, unless you believe Hoerner is a top 30 prospect (I personally don’t and doubt the Royals do). If you asked me about something like Hoerner - Happ - Adzolay, I would say “nah.”

The teams that do have the ammo don’t really have the need right now.

KC will probably get better offers in the offseason when more teams are buying and building. And even then, teams may be loathe to surrender the required centerpiece to the package.

A package built around a single top 100 guy who is in the back half of the lists is not close to enough for KC to make that type of deal.
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I don't think you're getting a top 30 prospect for him because what he's largely a glue guy.

Gorman and Carlson with the Cardinals have probably sneaked their way into the top 30 respectively - but Merrifield's contributions would serve to make the team better without making them truly outstanding. They're still clearly a tier behind the Dodgers, Yankees and Astros, probably the Twins and maybe Braves as well.

So the Cardinals aren't gonna move Gorman or Carlson for him because it doesn't change their ultimate outcome. And when you say you want a top 30 player AND another top 100 guy, well now you've effectively eliminated the Cardinals from contention as well because Montero, Torres and Nunez are all too green to make top 100 lists. Even Knizner isn't on there.

But the Cardinals damn sure wouldn't give you Gorman AND Montero or Kizner. Because again, it just doesn't change an outcome much.

And I'd argue that the Cardinals could probably use Merrifield as much or more than any team in baseball given their complete lack of a leadoff hitter and his ability to play multiple OF positions in addition to 2b/CI.

He may be a big time WAR guy, but he's the wrong kind of player to engender that kind of return, IMO. He's not ascending, he's not flashy, he has little ceiling left. GMs don't give up top 30 prospects for that kind of player. It just doesn't happen and if that's what Moore is insisting on, I think he's making a mistake.

But if he could get a lotto ticket, a live arm and someone deep in the minors with some upside, that's probably a deal he should consider. Something like Jhon Torres, Junior Fernandez (arrow's pointed way up this year) and Ivan Herrera (super young C w/ ML backup floor given his defensive chops) is probably something he should consider.

Because I don't think anyone really thinks the Royals are going to contend for a WC birth over the next 2-3 seasons, do they? And after that, Merrifield won't have much value left.
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I'm really warming up to Schildt. He is moving away slowly but surely that we have to trust our guy BS to make the pitch, get that hit, Doesnt matter if they hit .200 for months or everyone watching knows the pitcher has lost it.

He has cleaned up the base running and defense. He's had a few brainfarts with bullpen management over the last 100 games but overall he has made the right moves.

An example of this happened last week, Pulling Flaherty with 1 out in the 5th with 85 pitches and bases loaded saved the game and we got the win. Matheny would have let him go to full meltdown and stood at the podium said he owes it to the guy to let him get the win, get himself out of the jam. Never understood that argument. What do you owe to the 23 other players on the team? the fans?

I dont think playing Molina, Carp when they come back will be his decision. Hopefully Carp recognizes that if you cant hit AA pitching, your not hitting MLB pitching and cooperates to stay down there. Molina is a hard one. He was a top 5-7 catcher in the NL last year, acceptable for a STL legend. But, the serious deterioration and decline has started. His replacements are doing well. Maybe he will recognize the situation and not cause a problem?
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Keep waiting and watch you get a couple of mediocre prospects for him when he's on his last year under contract because you held out for something no team is going to give you when you have to figure the Pirates are going to be pretty close to selling guys like Marte, the Braves will be looking to deal Inciarte, guys like Scooter Gennett will be free agents, etc...
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