I posted this in another thread. But I figured it makes the most sense in this forum where we get into the nitty gritty a bit more:
I know I'm talking about Brett Veach here, and the cap magic Veach has performed over the years has been nothing short of innovative.
That being said, they're on the verge of extending Chris Jones this offseason. Aaron Donald rakes in $31m/year, and it would shock me if they locked down Chris Jones for less than $28m/year. Honestly Jones may ask to reset the market.
If that's the case, I don't know how you reset the market with Orlando Brown. He either has to come down, or you risk him sitting out when you tag him again.
Tagging him would be the best scenario, if he agrees to play: it would be the cheapest option, and (a.) you could draft a stud tackle in the 1st this year and Eric Fisher him, by letting the established vet man LT for a year while the RT gets acclimated, or (b.) you could extend Brown in the 2024 offseason, allowing you to stagger some of those massive cap hits between him and Jones.
The odds that you sign both of those guys this offseason, and have their big cap hits crash in simultaneously, doesn't seem tenable.
Thoughts?
If Chris Jones asks to reset the market at $32m/year, do you take the deal? [Reply]
It depends, imo, if the deal has a bunch of fake money at the end. If it's 32MM in real cap dollars, the chiefs can't agree.
There is a vast gap between Donald's contract and the rest of the DTs in the league, though, so I have hope there is room to compromise around 27mm aav with 55M gtyd for a three year extension as outlined in my post:
Originally Posted by Nightfyre:
It depends, imo, if the deal has a bunch of fake money at the end. If it's 32MM in real cap dollars, the chiefs can't agree.
There is a vast gap between Donald's contract and the rest of the DTs in the league, though, so I have hope there is room to compromise around 27mm aav with 55M gtyd for a three year extension as outlined in my post:
You're absolutely correct -- there is a $10m/year difference between Donald and the next closest DT.
But there's no gap between Donald and Jones on the field. And that's what matters. Matter of fact, I don't know if there's a defensive tackle in football right now playing better than Jones.
Add in the fact that he's beloved in the locker room and the centerpiece of the defense, I think if he comes out and demands to reset the market, you ride out his $29m cap hit in 2023, painful as it is, make your determinations with Brown this offseason, and take your medicine with him next year.
You cannot let Jones walk under virtually any circumstance. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
You're absolutely correct -- there is a $10m/year difference between Donald and the next closest DT.
But there's no gap between Donald and Jones on the field. And that's what matters. Matter of fact, I don't know if there's a defensive tackle in football right now playing better than Jones.
Add in the fact that he's beloved in the locker room and the centerpiece of the defense, I think if he comes out and demands to reset the market, you ride out his $29m cap hit in 2023, painful as it is, make your determinations with Brown this offseason, and take your medicine with him next year.
You cannot let Jones walk under virtually any circumstance.
There is some utility in playing out the deal and using the franchise tag thereafter ,given his age. But to not use the his 2023 salary for guarantees towards his next deal will be a huge missed opportunity. Tough to say how the chiefs should tackle that. I wonder what he would fetch in a tyreek trade scenario, though his production would be far more difficult to replace. I don't say that as a slight to Hill, either. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
You're absolutely correct -- there is a $10m/year difference between Donald and the next closest DT.
But there's no gap between Donald and Jones on the field. And that's what matters. Matter of fact, I don't know if there's a defensive tackle in football right now playing better than Jones.
Add in the fact that he's beloved in the locker room and the centerpiece of the defense, I think if he comes out and demands to reset the market, you ride out his $29m cap hit in 2023, painful as it is, make your determinations with Brown this offseason, and take your medicine with him next year.
You cannot let Jones walk under virtually any circumstance.
I think that's the most likely scenario, yes.
Ultimately I think the Chiefs, even with Mahomes deal, can afford to have 2-3 guys at the top of the market on the roster. Jones can/should be one of them (even at his $27 million hit next season).
So if that means you ride him out on his contract next season and then tag him the following year, so be it. But I don't think it will likely come to that. I suspect the two sides will find a way to get it done. Would 4/$110 be enough? I would think so - It would make him the first $100 million defensive tackle. It would be a roughly 30% increase over his last contract. It would take him through his age 33 season (but realistically have an out after 3 and his age 32 season).
It would be a damn strong effort from KC and one that I would expect would be enough to get it done. He's a guy who still has a wide open path to the HoF and winning championships would likely help him a lot in that regard. And staying with the organization that has put him on that path is likely a positive thing. [Reply]
Jones has stated several times now that he's a Chief for life. Hill never once said anything like that. CJ will go the way of Kelce and sign a fair deal here. He's not going to hold the Chiefs over a barrel like Tyreek did. He wants to be here, and I have no doubt he will be. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Wisconsin_Chief:
Jones has stated several times now that he's a Chief for life. Hill never once said anything like that. CJ will go the way of Kelce and sign a fair deal here. He's not going to hold the Chiefs over a barrel like Tyreek did. He wants to be here, and I have no doubt he will be.
Yeah he did.
Go listen to his post-game interview after the Bills game, for example. He couldn't have been more laudatory of the organization, his teammates, etc...
Guys say stuff - I wouldn't put any stock in it.
He's going to want to get paid and if the Chiefs won't pay him, he's gonna leverage his to find someone that WILL.
But I think the Chiefs recognize how important he is to this defense and they'll get something done. You need difference makers on both sides of the ball and when you have a guy like Jones, you take care of him. [Reply]
I'm not sorry, but if the Chiefs extend Chris Jones by wiping out his 2023 salary and turning the deal into something else, look at what Veach secured Chris Jones for against the cap when he extended him in 2020:
$15m against the cap in 2020
$8.5m (!!!) against the cap in 2021
$29m against the cap in 2022
His deal will effectively had been 3 years, $52.5m, or $17.5m/year.
Absolutely asinine, the stuff Veach pulled in 2020. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I'm not sorry, but if the Chiefs extend Chris Jones by wiping out his 2023 salary and turning the deal into something else, look at what Veach secured Chris Jones for against the cap when he extended him in 2020:
$15m against the cap in 2020
$8.5m (!!!) against the cap in 2021
$29m against the cap in 2022
His deal will effectively had been 3 years, $52.5m, or $17.5m/year.
Absolutely asinine, the stuff Veach pulled in 2020.
You can't just 'wipe out' restructure bonuses even if you tear up his 2023 salary. Those are on the books either way.
So with that on the books, the original contract essentially becomes 3/$60 million (everything that's been paid to him, minus his $19.5 million in base and $500K workout bonus).
Still a bargain, but you can't hand-waive the $15 million(ish) in restructure charges that his lower 2021 number put on the cap in 22 and eventually 2023. Those still exist. [Reply]
Gotta sign Chris (almost) no matter what. Especially if it is a matter of deciding between OBJ and Chris.
Veach is a smart man, and can see what is plain as day to message board wankers - we dodged a bullet by OBJ being too high on himself and not taking the deal this offseason.
We should not give him the same deal this offseason, even if we win the SB and Veach is feeling a lil' freaky (see: CEH pick).
To me, its the franchise tag again, and if he won't play on it, then tag/trade & acquire another LT by some other means. Trade picks, draft, FA, whatever. [Reply]