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Originally Posted by keg in kc:
I actually remember book Sansa being much more naive than her tv counterpart. She's like the prototypical Disney princess at the start and just continues being monumentally clueless for the longest time. Though not so much as her mother. Giving her Jeyne Poole's storyline (IIRC Ramsay marries her as fake arya) from the book actually allowed them to mature her much more effectively.
IMO the sansa chapters in the books are some of the worst to slog through until she starts to wise up. Even worse than catelyn, and she gives dany a run for her money in terms of 'oh God I have to read another chapter with her??'
On the other hand yes book Cersei is nigh on irredeemable, to the point where Jamie abandons her, though who knows what happens in book 6.
TV Cersei is definitely setting up the Tyrells. I don't think the queen of thorns lasts much longer than Kevan. Don't see Cersei dying this season, and don't see anyone but Arya killing her.
Agreed.
Book Sansa sucks FAR worse than television Sansa. Book Sansa can just fucking die already. Her POV chapters are awful and while she's not quite the vapid twat that Catelyn was, she's pretty close (and she'd have easily surpassed Catelyn with time and practice; her natural talent for being an insipid meddler is without peer).
And Book Cersei isn't just less relateable, she's far less intelligent. Having POV chapters for her and letting you inside her head allows Martin to show you that sometimes she's just not nearly as intelligent as she thinks she is. Duncan accurately described book Cersei as the literary embodiment of the Duncan-Kruger effect; it's balls on. The television Cersei seems calculating and cunning and while she occasionally draws bad cards, the show never seems to suggest that sometimes she's simply not very bright.
The book, OTOH, shows you that sometimes she's simply very wrong. It also does a really nice job of showing a slow descent into straight up madness whereas the show seems to actually be leveling her out and making her more and more sane. [Reply]
Book Sansa sucks FAR worse than television Sansa. Book Sansa can just fucking die already. Her POV chapters are awful and while she's not quite the vapid twat that Catelyn was, she's pretty close (and she'd have easily surpassed Catelyn with time and practice; her natural talent for being an insipid meddler is without peer).
And Book Cersei isn't just less relateable, she's far less intelligent. Having POV chapters for her and letting you inside her head allows Martin to show you that sometimes she's just not nearly as intelligent as she thinks she is. Duncan accurately described book Cersei as the literary embodiment of the Duncan-Kruger effect; it's balls on. The television Cersei seems calculating and cunning and while she occasionally draws bad cards, the show never seems to suggest that sometimes she's simply not very bright.
The book, OTOH, shows you that sometimes she's simply very wrong. It also does a really nice job of showing a slow descent into straight up madness whereas the show seems to actually be leveling her out and making her more and more sane.
I hated them making Cersei relatable for the longest time, but it has grown on me.
Same as with Jaime... because Cersei isn't the straight up cunt in the show she is in the books, Jaime's evolution has to be different.
I also think those are two of the hardest characters to translate to the screen, as so much of their development and what we know of it comes from their POV chapters and hearing internal monologue. Much tougher to show that on TV. [Reply]
Originally Posted by duncan_idaho:
I hated them making Cersei relatable for the longest time, but it has grown on me.
Same as with Jaime... because Cersei isn't the straight up cunt in the show she is in the books, Jaime's evolution has to be different.
I also think those are two of the hardest characters to translate to the screen, as so much of their development and what we know of it comes from their POV chapters and hearing internal monologue. Much tougher to show that on TV.
I'd rather just have the make Jaime be the 'evolving' one. Especially when Cersei's turn doesn't really make that much sense - her entire life was built around fiercely protecting her children and elevating them...when they actually start dying, wouldn't it serve to make her double down on the ferociousness? The straight up evilness? Why would that level her out? It doesn't really make sense.
Meanwhile Jamie didn't actually change much in the books; we just learned more about his motives. And while there was some change, it came from an obvious motive - losing his hand essentially deprived him of his fundamental character. The thing that made him who he was was gone.
Jamie's character arc in the book is natural and would've made great sense for the show. Cersei's, OTOH, is forced and seems contrived due to 2 or 3 seasons of people getting pissed off at Martin and HBO for seemingly making shitty female characters. I think D&D have spent season 6 largely compensating for same now that they have free reign to leave the source material. [Reply]
I'm trying to read up on my his thread: but it's been mostly "are they dany's boobs" or "how did the fire get so high so fast"
Who fucking cares? Dany the "unburnt" shows herself. Just touching the fire holders says that. We've been here before. The gold crown.....
Just stop the over eveluation. I'm down with some questioning, but the fire from Dany is just dumb. I am so glad to see Sansa and Jon together! This will give Jon new purpose. [Reply]
If Ramsey is defeated and killed and Rickon is saved, does that make Sansa head of House Bolton and Rickon head of House Stark?
If that were presented as the case with The Knights of the Vale/Wildling army at the door of Winterfell, would it be enough to cause a mutiny against the Bastard of Bolton and unite the North? [Reply]
Originally Posted by wazu:
There are many sub-theories. Mine would be Littlefinger sabotaging somehow. I don't think Loras would betray his family. Plus we never had any visibility to him having knowledge of the scheme.
Loras is broken. He was never strong, and he told them everything he could think to tell them. I'm not sure how you could possibly think anything different after last episode.
All that said, I don't think Loras knew that tidbit. Though he certainly could have, through his grandmother or sister. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
Loras is broken. He was never strong, and he told them everything he could think to tell them. I'm not sure how you could possibly think anything different after last episode.
All that said, I don't think Loras knew that tidbit. Though he certainly could have, through his grandmother or sister.
Yeah, he is broken. The show makers seem to be intent on turning all of the male characters into pussies. [Reply]
Originally Posted by wazu:
Yeah, he is broken. The show makers seem to be intent on turning all of the male characters into pussies.
Loras getting broken I could see. Even Martin paints him as a very good swordsman, etc., but somewhat more showmanship than awesomeness.
But Sansa having to give Jon his balls back was a bit irksome. And it's definitely the rise of teh women everywhere. Sansa, Arya, Dany, Cercei. All the strong male characters have been killed or emasculated (literally in at least one instance). Other than Tyrion I guess. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Amnorix:
Loras getting broken I could see. Even Martin paints him as a very good swordsman, etc., but somewhat more showmanship than awesomeness.
But Sansa having to give Jon his balls back was a bit irksome. And it's definitely the rise of teh women everywhere. Sansa, Arya, Dany, Cercei. All the strong male characters have been killed or emasculated (literally in at least one instance). Other than Tyrion I guess.
Did the author even have a point? Seems like a random collection of observations that reach no actual conclusions. I don't really disagree with most of it, just not sure what the point is.
I do think it's a little disingenuous to paint Dany as some kind of tyrant for killing the Vos Dothraki. They had enslaved her. At worst she acted in self defense. [Reply]
Uh...yup, that's about what I figured the author looked like.
Do you figure that person has ever enjoyed ANYTHING in her life? Her friggen faceshot is the most dour, glum expression I've ever seen.
Salon: The Worst.
Sonya wore out her schtick at the slightly less SJW-y AVClub, and moved on to Salon, in a near desert island position [for Salon] as exclusively a media commentator. [Reply]
