Originally Posted by Bwana:
Once again, don't come in this thread with some kind of political agenda, or you will be shown the door. If you want to go that route, there is a thread about this in DC.
Originally Posted by Dartgod:
People, there is a lot of good information in this thread, let's try to keep the petty bickering to a minimum.
We all have varying opinions about the impact of this, the numbers, etc. We will all never agree with each other. But we can all keep it civil.
Thanks!
Click here for the original OP:
Spoiler!
Apparently the CoronaVirus can survive on a inanimate objects, such as door knobs, for 9 days.
California coronavirus case could be first spread within U.S. community, CDC says
By SOUMYA KARLAMANGLA, JACLYN COSGROVE
FEB. 26, 2020 8:04 PM
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention is investigating what could be the first case of novel coronavirus in the United States involving a patient in California who neither recently traveled out of the country nor was in contact with someone who did.
“At this time, the patient’s exposure is unknown. It’s possible this could be an instance of community spread of COVID-19, which would be the first time this has happened in the United States,” the CDC said in a statement. “Community spread means spread of an illness for which the source of infection is unknown. It’s also possible, however, that the patient may have been exposed to a returned traveler who was infected.”
The individual is a resident of Solano County and is receiving medical care in Sacramento County, according to the state Department of Public Health.
The CDC said the “case was detected through the U.S. public health system — picked up by astute clinicians.”
Officials at UC Davis Medical Center expanded on what the federal agency might have meant by that in an email sent Wednesday, as reported by the Davis Enterprise newspaper.
The patient arrived at UC Davis Medical Center from another hospital Feb. 19 and “had already been intubated, was on a ventilator, and given droplet protection orders because of an undiagnosed and suspected viral condition,” according to an email sent by UC Davis officials that was obtained by the Davis Enterprise.
The staff at UC Davis requested COVID-19 testing by the CDC, but because the patient didn’t fit the CDC’s existing criteria for the virus, a test wasn’t immediately administered, according to the email. The CDC then ordered the test Sunday, and results were announced Wednesday. Hospital administrators reportedly said in the email that despite these issues, there has been minimal exposure at the hospital because of safety protocols they have in place.
A UC Davis Health spokesperson declined Wednesday evening to share the email with The Times.
Since Feb. 2, more than 8,400 returning travelers from China have entered California, according to the state health department. They have been advised to self-quarantine for 14 days and limit interactions with others as much as possible, officials said.
“This is a new virus, and while we are still learning about it, there is a lot we already know,” Dr. Sonia Angell, director of the California Department of Public Health, said in a statement. “We have been anticipating the potential for such a case in the U.S., and given our close familial, social and business relationships with China, it is not unexpected that the first case in the U.S. would be in California.”
It is not clear how the person became infected, but public health workers could not identify any contacts with people who had traveled to China or other areas where the virus is widespread. That raises concern that the virus is spreading in the United States, creating a challenge for public health officials, experts say.
“It’s the first signal that we could be having silent transmission in the community,” said Lawrence Gostin, director of the World Health Organization Collaborating Center on National and Global Health Law. “It probably means there are many more cases out there, and it probably means this individual has infected others, and now it’s a race to try to find out who that person has infected.”
On Tuesday, the CDC offered its most serious warning to date that the United States should expect and prepare for the coronavirus to become a more widespread health issue.
“Ultimately, we expect we will see coronavirus spread in this country,” said Nancy Messonnier, director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases. “It’s not so much a question of if, but a question of when.”
According to the CDC’s latest count Wednesday morning, 59 U.S. residents have tested positive for the new strain of coronavirus — 42 of whom are repatriated citizens from a Diamond Princess cruise. That number has grown by two since Messonnier’s last count Tuesday, although the CDC was not immediately available to offer details on the additional cases.
More than 82,000 cases of coronavirus have been reported globally, and more than 2,700 people have died, with the majority in mainland China, the epicenter of the outbreak.
But public health leaders have repeatedly reminded residents that the health risk from the novel coronavirus to the general public remains low.
“While COVID-19 has a high transmission rate, it has a low mortality rate,” the state Department of Public Health said in a statement Wednesday. “From the international data we have, of those who have tested positive for COVID-19, approximately 80% do not exhibit symptoms that would require hospitalization. There have been no confirmed deaths related to COVID-19 in the United States to date.”
CDC officials have also warned that although the virus is likely to spread in U.S. communities, the flu still poses a greater risk.
Gostin said the news of potential silent transmission does not eliminate the possibility of containing the virus in the U.S. and preventing an outbreak.
“There are few enough cases that we should at least try,” he said. “Most of us are not optimistic that that will be successful, but we’re still in the position to try.”
Originally Posted by SupDock:
Once again we’ve reached a point where I no longer understand what you are trying to say.
It is a vaccine. It doesn’t alter your genetics or DNA. Any claim you make that tries to negate these truth is subterfuge.
I've looked to find why Moderna claims in their SEC filing that the FDA considers mRNA to be "gene therapy," and have found nothing. Are the mRNA vaccines "genetic"? Yes, in the most minimal way possible (e.g., a single stand of RNA). They don't "alter" genes or DNA, nor do they replace them.
As to the mRNA vaccines not being vaccines:
a substance used to stimulate the production of antibodies and provide immunity against one or several diseases, prepared from the causative agent of a disease, its products, or a synthetic substitute, treated to act as an antigen without inducing the disease.
The mRNA vaccines do precisely that and the FDA agrees. [Reply]
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
It doesn't have to alter your DNA to be classified as a "gene therapy product" by the FDA or the European Union.
Truth can be changed with $$$$, see the change in the definition of the scientific term "herd immunity" that took place at the World Health Organization where people who had Covid, recovered, and were now immune are not counted as immune.
Don't worry, if these companies want to get their products labeled a certain way, they will get their way.
You are just embarrassing yourself , maybe guessing product prices on the Price is Right might be something you would be better suited for. [Reply]
Originally Posted by BigBeauford:
I'll admit I am very frustrated at this point and prone to lashing out. I know I am not helping, but damn I can't help replay in my head how this should be done and buried, but a lot of Americans of different stripes aren't doing what it takes.
Why did you expect them to do as you hoped?
This has been something everyone should have expected from the start. I think a lot of people live in a bubble and don't actually understand the actual people that make this country what it is. Lets just start with the fact that this country was founded on "fuck you, I'll do what I want". 200+ hundred years later and this country is still very strongly "fuck you, I'll do what I want". It does not matter the cost. It's what drove this beast to becoming a superpower.
The message from the top has been so horrible I'm surprised we're as far along as we are. They politicized the vaccine before it was even available and the list of mistakes snowballed from there. You can't motive a populace based on freedom with a clown show. They're going to point and laugh.
I personally don't want to be around when this balance changes, because it's going to be ugly. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Monticore:
You are just embarrassing yourself , maybe guessing product prices on the Price is Right might be something you would be better suited for.
Originally Posted by ghak99:
Why did you expect them to do as you hoped?
This has been something everyone should have expected from the start. I think a lot of people live in a bubble and don't actually understand the actual people that make this country what it is. Lets just start with the fact that this country was founded on "**** you, I'll do what I want". 200+ hundred years later and this country is still very strongly "**** you, I'll do what I want". It does not matter the cost. It's what drove this beast to becoming a superpower.
The message from the top has been so horrible I'm surprised we're as far along as we are. They politicized the vaccine before it was even available and the list of mistakes snowballed from there. You can't motive a populace based on freedom with a clown show. They're going to point and laugh.
I personally don't want to be around when this balance changes, because it's going to be ugly.
I have been and and always will be a supporter of the rugged individual in America. I'm also a pragmatist who believes there are shades of gray when it comes to doing what's best for this country. I know our great grandparents gave up so much to get where we are. And when it comes to vaccines, I wasn't fully on board with getting vaccinated either at the outset, but I think it's a small ask to get us all back on the rails. Those who expect half the country to carry the "burden" are just selfish. [Reply]
Gene therapy product. Not gene therapy. I don’t really like the confusing language of this claim by Moderna.
Gene therapy alters dna in the cell nucleus. The vaccine does not. Gene therapy can create mRNA, but an mRNA vaccine isn’t gene therapy. The product does not even enter the nucleus of the cell.
i was of the impression vaccines like flu, small pox, etc. were meant to suppress the virus and therefore pass on so called antibodies (sorry if using wrong term). isn't that what helped tamp down previous virus'?
where as this current covid delta is supposedly making the vaccinated a host and not killing the virus, only making it more transmissible to those around them?
im all for taking a covid vaccine but if what i have read is true, mRNA is not a 'vaccine' by definition?
I believe it's about where the virus replicates. The reason this virus is so dangerous is it replicates in the throat and nasal cavity w/o really causing any harm. So it doesn't get the body's defense mechanisms worked up.
That only happens when the virus moves into the lungs, or some other neurological place. So if someone took a vaccine, the antiobodies wore off, they may have to get a little sick before the T and B cells are spurred into action to create new antibodies, which are what actually neutralizes the virus.
Most other diseases start making you sick right away. So there isn't this delayed response while you also unfortunately happen to be infectious. [Reply]
I don't like tweets about 'Bob the antivaxxer' or 'Jane the denialist' who died in pain and in a last gasp, cried about their choices. I find it manipulative and disrespectful and equivalent to antivax propaganda. We should fight vaccine hesitancy with facts and appeal to reason.
— Prof Francois Balloux (@BallouxFrancois) August 7, 2021
I agree in a perfect world. But unfortunately time and time and time again the vaccine hesitant don't believe it until it happens to someone close to them. See the guy I just posted. His wife said 30 of their friends have now gotten vaxxed in his name. Clearly seeing him die mattered more to them than any rationally-presented charts and figures. His wife even said she had to force herself to get off social media (where she was seeing tons of anti-vaxx stuff).
A lot of these people either don't watch the news or are in some weird bubble where covid is barely happening and the vaccines are causing more harm then good. If those people come wandering into this thread and maybe start influencing others - I feel the need to fight back. One way is "hey - look at all these anti-vaxxers and vaxx-hesitant people dying and regretting it, do you want that to be you?"
Like I said I'll stop, but I think it's an effective counter to the stuff MahomesMagic is spewing and the "just asking questions" stuff from carlos and some others.
It's silly imo to pretend we're not in an asymmetrical disinformation war, where people are making perfectly rational decisions. They're not. Well paid influencers are spewing emotionally-charged anti-vaxx propaganda and sowing distrust all over the internet, radio and TV.
Sometimes the only way to stop someone from making an emotionally-charged irrational decision is an emotional tug the other way. They didn't get to that place with cold hard facts and reason, and facts and reason alone aren't going to get them out. Everyone is ultimately driven by their emotions, even if they think they aren't. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Monticore:
You think everyone walking away from the table thinking you are a moron is a win?
That's always the plan. Just keep copy-pasting stuff he found on the interwebs. Refuse to understand the other side's point. When finally cornered, move on and copy-paste the next nonsense point, and demand your debate opponent put in 10x to 100x the effort to debunk it.
Being wrong on anything in the past doesn't matter, just move on to the next. No logical consistency required - just any angle that can sow doubt and confusion.
Eventually the other person throws in the towel and you claim victory. [Reply]
I don't like tweets about 'Bob the antivaxxer' or 'Jane the denialist' who died in pain and in a last gasp, cried about their choices. I find it manipulative and disrespectful and equivalent to antivax propaganda. We should fight vaccine hesitancy with facts and appeal to reason.
— Prof Francois Balloux (@BallouxFrancois) August 7, 2021
The people who can be appealed to with reason, have by and large, already gotten vaccinated. That pretty much leaves the people who appeals to reason aren't going to make any difference.
Some people might get vaccinated if their job mandates vaccination and/or requires weekly testing if they don't.
For some people, being aware that X number of people around them have died, might do it. Those are the ones who have largely already gotten vaccinated. Others just don't seem to comprehend numbers. Or refuse vaccinations for whatever other personal reasons.
If some anti-vaxxer has gotten covid and has maintained that it is a hoax to their last, painful, dying breath..., making a public spectacle out of them could certainly be disrespectful.
However somebody who has been loudly and publicly anti-vax, but then is literally lying on their death bed, and calling up friends and family telling them that they regret their choice and begging them to get vaccinated...
Seems to me, anyway, they sort of hope that if anything good can come out of their death, maybe it can serve as warning to the their fellow anti-vax crowd to change their ways before it is to late or they too might be lying on their death bed regretting their choice... [Reply]
Originally Posted by :
Based on the published literature, it should have been obvious to any skilled medical practitioner in 2019 that there is a significant risk to vaccine research subjects that they may experience severe disease once vaccinated, while they might only have experienced a mild, self‐limited disease if not vaccinated.
