This.

Which is why all the excuses about how "Hardman's yards were different" will be so cringe to read when those excuses start rolling in.
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This too.
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And you can't call it a Frank Clark comparison because I didn't even like the Hardman pick.

I've never been predisposed to defend the guy or make excuses for him. I'm just willing to acknowledge that he's been a pretty damn productive player for us.

And again, I think Moore can be similarly productive but schemed open in different ways. The distinction is that I'd ultimately end up equally lukewarm on both guys. Whereas some, many of whom shit on the Hardman pick to this day, will consider it a home run acquisition for Moore.
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Hardman was a weapon, but not as a WR. He was a gadget player. I see his highlights and last year was a culmination of screens, dump off passes behind the LOS, jet sweeps and short catches for YAC. He wasn’t a WR guys.

He’s absolutely in Frank Clark territory bc like Frank he sometimes does his job well. Not anywhere near often enough. Sometimes he’s getting downfield and running a capable route. But he’s more-so fucking up.

Be honest guys. Hardman can’t run routes, he can’t block we’ll and he isn’t reliable and he makes a lot of mental errors. He’s an overdrafted version of Isaiah McKenzie who Andy utilizes well. That’s great for a day 3 pick, but 2nd rd? Not good.

Mecole isn’t trusted. Andy didn’t trust him. You could sure as hell see Patrick couldn’t trust him. Are we forgetting that he got benched for Pringle just 6 months ago? In week 10 at Las Vegas his snap count was half of what it was at any point to that game and Pringle took those snaps. The following week against Dallas his snap count was cut in half again to only 12 snaps. Then after a bye week he had a new low of 9 snaps against the Broncos.
Then the following week he got benched on ST’s for Mike Hughes. He didn’t play a single ST’s snap that whole game for the first time in his career.

Andy said this on Mecole on 12/6:

“Sometimes it works out that way. We still have a lot of trust in Mecole, and other weeks it will be higher. It’s just the way it worked out. Sometimes those things happen,” Reid said on Monday, December 6.

Hoo boy. That’s very similar to what Andy said last month about Frank Clark. Your “weapon” doesn’t get his snaps cut for a month like that guys. He was in the dog house. Just like Frank.

And then we draft Skyy Moore. So who the hell do you think they are referring to here with this tweet? Sure as hell wasn’t Tyreek. I don’t think it was Pringle. Robinson wasn’t good but they trusted him a lot more than Hardman.

It’s Hardman they’re talking about guys. Follow the tea leaves. Listen to what they are telling you

I asked assistant GM Mike Borgonzi what Skyy Moore brings to Chiefs that they might have lacked at WR: "He's dependable. He's going to run the right route and he's going to catch the ball.''

— Adam Teicher (@adamteicher) April 30, 2022

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DJ’s right though about Andy scheming Skyy open. He’ll try to do that for everyone.

I think Skyy Moore is gonna be our Nick Bolton pick this year. Even I was on the fence about Bolton’s poor lateral agility but look at what he did in his first year compared to a high ceiling prospect in Willie Gay? Bolton just knew how to play football and was a genuine ass kicker that we all loved as the year went on.

I think you’ll see that with Skyy Moore. I think you’re gonna be surprised DJ.
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I think the important question is... Can Sky Moore be your #1 WR in 2023?
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If he's ever your WR, your WR room will suck, IMO.

I don't doubt he can someday be a solid complementary WR. And again, it could happen as early as this season.

But I don't see anything to suggest you can have a halfway decent WR corps with that guy leading it. This is not a 1,200 yard receiver, IMO.
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Even if he is a 1,200 yard receiver, it's going to be 1,200 yards the hard way.

I just don't understand this fan bases' 180 that's been taken this season.

This idea that Mahomes SHOULD be turning chicken shit into salad.

As if the the major burden of this team doesn't already run through Mahomes. This team is built on Mahomes, and our success is LARGELY dependent on Mahomes being amazing.

So why the fuck are we trying to throw more on his plate by giving him lesser weapons to work with, like it's "the way it has to be?"

No, it doesn't have to be that way.

If Moore is your #1 receiver, then Mahomes is going to have to be excellent all the damn time.

One of these days i'll see Mahomes with some large radius WR's that can actually bail HIM out, rather than requiring pinpoint accurate passes right in the breadbox of 5-9" WR's.
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I don't think he was drafted as a guy with #1 WR upside in mind. I mean, our assistant GM basically said it: "He's dependable. He's going to run the right route and he's going to catch the ball.''

If you need a guy with #1 upside you're either taking them in the top 15 or getting a project with fairly high bust potential. At least from what you're able to project in a somewhat scientific way, that's what you're working with. The Chiefs opted for a safer bet at WR here.
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If you were going for the upside play, you stay at 50 and take Pickens. And hell, maybe they'd have taken Pickens at 54 if he were there - hard to say.

But WR1 upside was not what they were targeting in Moore. Having listened now to every post-draft presser from every day, from the GMs to the coaches, to the players, to the area scouts, I never got the impression for a second that they intended this kid to come in and lead the passing game at any point in his career.

He's a complementary player. And I think they know that.
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So it does kinda of change the calculus with the WR high end money just exploding. Yes, you'd love to have that alpha at WR (Tyreek, Chase etc) at some point. But to pay him, it's gonna cost alot and usually to draft them it's gonna take a higher pick now.

With Mahomes at QB, you don't need WR's as much to make him look good as you do need him to make WR's. So just keep stocking the position with as much talent as you can and see what comes of it.
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Sure. There's no question that the explosion in WR costs made the ability to get a productive player more valuable than ever before. And again, with our OL and QB, maybe floor is where we SHOULD focus in this WR market.

But more valuable doesn't mean he's a better player. It means the intersection of supply/demand has shifted - it doesn't make Moore any more likely to be a WR1 though.

I'm simply saying that this isn't the path I'd have taken. I'd have prioritized another DE (where the top of the market ALSO exploded and we have fewer guys capable of contributing, IMO) while taking someone like Tolbert who I see more upside with and then layering at WR w/ someone like Austin instead of taking 5 DBs.

I just don't see how you hit it and quit it at DL and WR while also taking two guys who's appeal is in their floor. I didn't want to trade up because I wanted to be able to stack ceiling and floor. We didn't really aggressively trade up (still made 10 picks) - we just got too locked in on floor and defensive back, IMO.

And I think we have a segment of the fanbase that has lost their damn minds w/r/t his actual ability and upside.
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I'm just not as concerned about him being "WR#1". I don't care about 1,2,3 etc wr's anymore. Give me 3 #2 guys and let Mahomes make them better.

I think with him at QB, if we are getting away from the stars and scrubs thing, you've gotta lean on floor a bit more.
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As I said in the Tyreek Hill thread (and later 'TRADE UP FOR THE WRS!!!11!!1!' threads) - I don't necessarily disagree.

I am fascinated by the death by 1,000 papercuts experiment as applied to the WR corps. I really do think it might work.

But I'd kinda like a Plan B if it doesn't. If it turns out that no, you really do need something of a dynamic presence in your WR corps to keep teams from locking in on traits and telegraphing what you're trying to do - well we ain't got one of those.

We don't have anyone that projects to one of those. And if this doesn't work, we likely won't have one next year either because A) They'll still be real expensive and B) this isn't an offense that's easy to hit the ground running with.

We've kinda pushed our chips in here. Whereas had we taken someone that had more ceiling like Tolbert (or not moved out and taken Pickens) and the 'quantity has it's own quality' approach didn't work, then maybe we'd have a genuine ascending alpha sort who keeps us from having to start from scratch.
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I think they passed on Pickens bc of his character. Reports said he was very hot headed and “me first” which turned teams off. Seems like Matheiu doing that all season drained the defense. Pickens also isn’t great at route running which makes sense bc he played at Georgia.

Every pick we made seemed to be high character, smart and very hard working. All football all the time. I think that kinda said enough.

I think they’ll go for the high end WR next draft. Moore seems like a replacement for Hardman who is a complimentary player.
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