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The Gonzo Lounge>So you think you know Chiefs pass rushers?
Rain Man 10:36 PM 07-19-2021
As you undoubtedly know, sacks became an official NFL statistic in 1982. Before that year, we have nothing but legend and mystery.

However, Pro football reference now says that they went back to 1960 and did research to build sack stats back to that year for the NFL. So if you trust those numbers, we now ostensibly have sack statistics for the entire Chiefs' history.

The data is behind a paywall, but fortunately so am I. So let's test your knowledge. I'll post questions periodically and let's see how Chiefsplanet answers them.

Note: all data refers to players' careers with the Chiefs only. If someone comes from another team or goes to another team, their stats on those teams don't count. It's the Chiefs, the whole Chiefs, and nothing but the Chiefs.

Question #1 is easy. List the top ten Chiefs in terms of career sacks.
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Bowser 05:06 PM 07-20-2021
Vonnie Holiday
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Bowser 05:06 PM 07-20-2021
Dan Williams
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Bowser 05:07 PM 07-20-2021
....off the top of my head
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Jewish Rabbi 05:10 PM 07-20-2021
Junior Siavii
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cdcox 08:31 PM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
I too require explanation. Are these the top five guys who retired each year? I can't quite read the x axis.

And I'll correct MagicHef's unfortunate error by saying that it looks like Reggie White and Derrick Thomas are close to Deacon Jones, and Aaron Donald is above him.
The data are the top 250 pass rushers since 1960. They are plotted in chronological order, based on the last year they played. My praise of Deacon Jones is based on how far above his contemporary peers he is compared to other players. Players who played in a common era faced similar offensive lines, styles of play, and played under common rules. Deacon was a real standout of his era. I discount Aaron Donald a bit because he is in the prime of his career, and hasn't yet recorded the last few years of his career where a player's productivity often rolls off. He Donald remains dominant through his retirement, he might unseat Jones as the most dominant pass rusher of all time.
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cdcox 08:35 PM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
Okay, here's your next question. 46 Chiefs recorded 10 or more sacks in their Chiefs career. Of those, name the top 10 in terms of sacks per game played.

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
I suspect Curly Culp and Jared Allen will do well on this list.
I'll add the usual suspects: DT, Buck Buchanan, Aaron Brown, Jerry Mays.
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Rain Man 08:36 PM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by Bowser:
R-Kal Truluck
Sadly, he did not make the 10 sack cutoff.

Originally Posted by Bowser:
Vonnie Holiday
See above.

Originally Posted by Bowser:
Dan Williams
Wow! I thought he'd be a tough out, but you got it. He's #6 all time.


1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6. Dan Williams - 0.56
7.
8.
9.
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Mecca 08:40 PM 07-20-2021
Derrick Thomas is first, when you had e his career total his per game number is like .76
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Rain Man 09:22 PM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by Mecca:
Derrick Thomas is first, when you had e his career total his per game number is like .76
That's a good guess, and you're close. He's #2.

1.
2. Derrick Thomas - .75
3.
4.
5.
6. Dan Williams - .56
7.
8.
9.
10.
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Jenson71 09:54 PM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by Rain Man:
Bingo.

#1 - Derrick Thomas - 126.5
#2 - Tamba Hali - 89.5
#3 - Neil Smith - 85.5
#4 - Justin Houston - 78.5
#5 - Art Still - 74
#6 - Buck Buchanan - 70.5
#7 - Jerry Mays - 65.5
#8 - Mike Bell - 52
#9 - Aaron Brown - 51
#10 - Eric Hicks - 44.5
It would be interesting to break down the comparison between DT and Buck Buchanan. For example, Thomas played in 169 games versus BB playing in 182, but of those games, how many passing plays were there?

Thomas played from 89-99, and during those years, the top passing attempts leader in the NFL averaged 601 attempts (over 16 games). But in Buchanan's days, the top passing attempts leader averaged 464 (I'm factoring in the two games the teams played less, as it was actually 406 over 14 games).

So can someone break down how these players compare in sacks per opportunity to see who was the most dominating sack monster in Chiefs history?

I'd guess DT still wins out, but Buchanan has got to be further up there.
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suzzer99 09:58 PM 07-20-2021
Justin Houston has to be up there in sacks/game.
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Rain Man 09:58 PM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by Jenson71:
It would be interesting to break down the comparison between DT and Buck Buchanan. For example, Thomas played in 169 games versus BB playing in 182, but of those games, how many passing plays were there?

Thomas played from 89-99, and during those years, the top passing attempts leader in the NFL averaged 601 attempts (over 16 games). But in Buchanan's days, the top passing attempts leader averaged 464 (I'm factoring in the two games the teams played less, as it was actually 406 over 14 games).

So can someone break down how these players compare in sacks per opportunity to see who was the most dominating sack monster in Chiefs history?

I'd guess DT still wins out, but Buchanan has got to be further up there.
That would indeed be interesting. I bet a good proxy could be easily done by just dividing sacks by the average passing attempts per game.

I was initially thinking that the old-timers might have more sacks per game due to the pass-blocking rules in place in those years. It was much harder to pass protect. But you're right in that there was a lot less passing in general, which may more than compensate.
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Rain Man 10:00 PM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by suzzer99:
Justin Houston has to be up there in sacks/game.
You bring home the gold. Houston is #1. This surprises me a little given how long it took him to come back fully from the injury.

1. Justin Houston - .77
2. Derrick Thomas - .75
3.
4.
5.
6. Dan Williams - .56
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8.
9.
10.
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Mecca 10:10 PM 07-20-2021
Houston had a 20 sack season and missed a bunch of games following, all the missed games actually help his number.

Jared Allen is probably on there.
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Rain Man 10:12 PM 07-20-2021
Originally Posted by Mecca:
Houston had a 20 sack season and missed a bunch of games following, all the missed games actually help his number.

Jared Allen is probably on there.
Interesting that you would bring up Jared Allen. #3 all time.

1. Justin Houston - .77
2. Derrick Thomas - .75
3. Jared Allen - .70
4.
5.
6. Dan Williams - .56
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8.
9.
10.
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