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Nzoner's Game Room>Dropped passes
frozenchief 10:05 PM 12-05-2021
Why can’t we catch the ball? Kielce, Pringle, and Tyreek all dropped catchable passes. those drops really screwed our offensive production. Tyreek’s ‘drop’ led to an interception.

What is going on? Are Kielce and Tyreek injured? What do we do for this season? Drafting or free agency are good answers for next season, not this one. the dropped passes aren’t such an issue with Denver but come playoffs, they will be really large.

I have no idea what is going on or why this is happening now and would love to hear any comments/suggestions.
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WilliamTheIrish 03:15 PM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I just expounded on it and I had to watch the slow-mo of the play. Suddenly it just jumped out as me clear as day as a shortstop throw. He was trying to get the ball out quick.

I think you're right that it wasn't an attempt to wrap it around the defender (Collinsworth misled me with the commentary there). I think it was a snap throw.
And it was a damn good one. (In a 20MPH swirling wind).
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O.city 03:15 PM 12-06-2021
The pump fake got 41 out of where he wanted him. There's a lane there.

Hill should bring it in. But a high fastball across the middle from 8 yards is just a tough catch. Hill is probably expecting to get whacked.
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OnTheWarpath15 03:16 PM 12-06-2021
He wants to fire it here. Young is ABSOLUTELY in the passing lane.




I can't get a grab of it in focus, but when he does throw it, Young has over-committed towards the sideline and there's an alleyway towards the hashmark. You can see Young reach back towards the ball but he's too far outside.

I'm not seeing where a right handed QB needs to throw sidearm to the lane INSIDE the defender. Outside? Absolutely.
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DJ's left nut 03:18 PM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15:
He wants to fire it here. Young is ABSOLUTELY in the passing lane.




I can't get a grab of it in focus, but when he does throw it, Young has over-committed towards the sideline and there's an alleyway towards the hashmark. You can see Young reach back towards the ball but he's too far outside.

I'm not seeing where a right handed QB needs to throw sidearm to the lane INSIDE the defender. Outside? Absolutely.
Since my reply to this is on the last page, I'll just direct you back there if you haven't read it already.

He was trying to speed his motion up.
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OnTheWarpath15 03:21 PM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I just expounded on it and I had to watch the slow-mo of the play. Suddenly it just jumped out as me clear as day as a shortstop throw. He was trying to get the ball out quick.

I think you're right that it wasn't an attempt to wrap it around the defender (Collinsworth misled me with the commentary there). I think it was a snap throw.
Yep. You posted while I was typing but I agree.

I'd prefer it to be more accurate from 8 yards, but Hill should make that catch.

The little things add up.
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O.city 03:22 PM 12-06-2021
When you speed up your motion, sometimes it sails on you. He got under neith it and threw a riser.

It's been a long while, but if memory serves me, you wanna be on top of slants and such so the nose is down.
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DJ's left nut 03:24 PM 12-06-2021
I've made that throw with those exact mechanics 100 times in my life. You don't have to put hardly any feet/shoulder into it. It's all elbows and wrists and elbows so it's just quick as a hiccup. You lose velocity but you gain pop to pop time. Over long distances you give back in velocity what you gain in release but on a short throw, especially one where your feet aren't exactly how you want them (for instance, when you've just pumped the other direction twice), it's how you want to release the ball.

It gives you fewer moving pieces and places to go wrong. Try to come over the top with your feet akimbo like that and your shoulder rotation is likely to take the ball somewhere you didn't want it to go. But if you can keep your lower half planted and your shoulders fairly square, you can do that little snap throw and make a solid throw that gets there fast and on target.

That's what he did. He got a shallow slant thrown in a way that allowed his WR enough time to bring it in before the opposite defender knocked him into the sun. And he did it despite two pump fakes that were necessary to create a throwing lane.

I'm sorry but that was a hell of a play by Mahomes. Hill has to catch it.
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O.city 03:24 PM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by OnTheWarpath15:
Yep. You posted while I was typing but I agree.

I'd prefer it to be more accurate from 8 yards, but Hill should make that catch.

The little things add up.
It's the difference in hitting Hill in stride full speed across the middle and him having to reach up for it.

He absolutely has to come down with it or atleast not pop it up in the air.

But I'm gonna expect my all pro franchise QB to absolutely put that one on the money. Maybe that's harsh, but that's where I'm at.
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ChiefsCountry 03:24 PM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I just expounded on it and I had to watch the slow-mo of the play. Suddenly it just jumped out as me clear as day as a shortstop throw. He was trying to get the ball out quick.

I think you're right that it wasn't an attempt to wrap it around the defender (Collinsworth misled me with the commentary there). I think it was a snap throw.
It looked more like a shortstop throw to me on the live view instead of the slow mo. But it absolutely looks like a shortstop trying to throw to beat a speedy runner.
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DJ's left nut 03:26 PM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
When you speed up your motion, sometimes it sails on you. He got under neith it and threw a riser.

It's been a long while, but if memory serves me, you wanna be on top of slants and such so the nose is down.
Sure, in a perfect world he doesn't throw it like that. I mean the still image from OTW makes it clear he didn't initially intend to. He's bringing that back for a conventional rocket into that spot.

But 41 didn't bite hard enough on the play fake (nice play there, really) so he couldn't let it go. It took some positively Montana-esque presence of mind to get that ball pulled down and know how to pull the DB out of the throwing lane. Then to have an internal clock that tells him he needs to get that ball out of there quickly is pretty damn stellar.

If anything this play shows me just how friggen good this guy is. All of that went on in the span of 3 seconds and I doubt he actually 'thought' about any of it. It just happened. And right up until Hill dropped a ball that smacked him right in both hands, it worked perfectly.
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OnTheWarpath15 03:27 PM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I'm sorry but that was a hell of a play by Mahomes. Hill has to catch it.
Originally Posted by O.city:
But I'm gonna expect my all pro franchise QB to absolutely put that one on the money. Maybe that's harsh, but that's where I'm at.


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DJ's left nut 03:28 PM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by ChiefsCountry:
It looked more like a shortstop throw to me on the live view instead of the slow mo. But it absolutely looks like a shortstop trying to throw to beat a speedy runner.
I didn't notice it until I saw the field angle that showed his elbow leading his wrist and the way he leaned with his top half instead of putting his hips/legs into it. It wasn't the slow motion, but rather the angle that made it obvious to me.
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DJ's left nut 03:31 PM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by O.city:
It's the difference in hitting Hill in stride full speed across the middle and him having to reach up for it.

He absolutely has to come down with it or atleast not pop it up in the air.

But I'm gonna expect my all pro franchise QB to absolutely put that one on the money. Maybe that's harsh, but that's where I'm at.
Anything other than an all-pro, franchise QB doesn't get that ball to a spot where Hill has that kind of play. Your average QB lets it fly at the back of the drop and has it batted in the air anyway. Alex Smith drops his eyes and starts looking for somewhere to run. Matt Ryan throws it away. Even Tom Brady maybe pumps a couple of times and then lets it go, but in the process probably gets Hill's clock cleaned.

I think the fact that this was a makeable play at all is a demonstration of just how special Mahomes is rather than grounds for saying he should be better.

I've come not to bury Patrick Mahomes, but to praise him...
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ChiefsCountry 03:43 PM 12-06-2021
Originally Posted by DJ's left nut:
I didn't notice it until I saw the field angle that showed his elbow leading his wrist and the way he leaned with his top half instead of putting his hips/legs into it. It wasn't the slow motion, but rather the angle that made it obvious to me.
Went to YouTube and I pulled some Carlos Correa highlights up. Pretty damn similar throw.
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DJ's left nut 03:48 PM 12-06-2021
I would like to see an end-zone view of this play, though. For one reason: I'm trying to figure out what Hill is doing with his hands.

There's a way to catch that ball and a way to do....well what Hill did. Hill let his right hand take the brunt of the velocity there and almost tried to trap it against his right hand with his left. You're gonna be taught on that ball to extend both arms even and create the 'diamond' so the hands wrap around it.

When you do that, at worst you typically drop it down. But since he let that right hand absorb most of the impact, the ball popped up (and hell, the left hand might have even aided it in that regard).

Just seemed like an odd technique from Hill.
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