ChiefsPlanet Mobile
Page 8 of 14
« First < 45678 9101112 > Last »
Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>I am not a fan of Veach's "tier" approach.
Direckshun 09:02 AM 05-02-2021
The idea that he has players in layered tiers is not new, of course.

But here's the problem with it: in any tier you care to look at, the most valuable positions get drafted first, because of course they should. Quarterback, tackle, wide receiver, passrusher.

The last players to be chosen in any tier are going to be the lowest value players.

Running back. Linebacker. Interior offensive line.

And here we are. That's been the Chiefs last four picks in the 1st and 2nd rounds of the draft.

It's just not a great approach when you're always at the end of the round, which the Chiefs always will be under Reid and Mahomes. You need to be able to be more flexible.

The Chiefs selected a linebacker (which we do desperately need) and a center (which we kinda needed) when there were really good players in a lower tier still on the board.

How much better is Humphrey going to be than Blythe? Really?

Because remember that when we struggle to get a passrush in December, January, and February. Remember that in the Super Bowl when the Bucs run out the exact same coverage that blanketed us the first time and we still don't have a WR2 that can break free of 1 on 1 coverage. Remember that when, god forbid, one of our corners go down with injury in week 7 and we have to watch Rashad Fenton get raked for 8 weeks.

That being said, the Chiefs did get better this weekend. They just could have gotten a lot better this weekend, with how sexy the board looked when they were up to pick.

Pick by pick reviews.

LB Nick Bolton, Missouri -- The Chiefs probably have the best linebacking corps now that they've had in a decade. Hitchens finally seems to understand the system, Gay looked really solid all year and came on until his injury, and Bolton's going to be really good. He's a smart player with limited athleticism, so really a perfect Spags linebacker. But he may be a two-down player, and I see a lot of Kawika Mitchell in him -- neither of those are deserving of the 2nd round pick we spent. C-

C Creed Humphrey, Oklahoma -- I think Humphrey has Pro Bowl upside, and honestly the Chiefs track record on 2nd round centers is stellar with Mitch Morse and Rodney Hudson. I think he's going to be a starter here for 10 years. I'd had preferred other players, but this was a good get. A-

DE Joshua Kaindoh, Florida State -- I really don't like this pick, and only talked myself into it the day of the draft because we are so desperate at the position. Kaindoh has every bit of the size you need, but he just has no feel for the game. This is a Demetrius-Harris-sized project. Harris turned out to be pretty good, but it took us four years to get there. Kaindoh may yield the same returns at a different position. D+

TE Noah Gray, Duke -- I really hope the loss of Anthony Sherman didn't mess with our heads badly enough to take this guy, as the team later was communicating he could be a flex fullback. It's hard for me to get too worked up about Gray, however, one way or the other. I think he's fine, but a poor fit, but the 5th round on was just garbage in terms of options. C+

WR Cornell Powell, Clemson -- The questions with Powell entirely will be between the ears. He is already physically maxed out and is pretty great with the ball in his hands. I imagine he will peak out in a couple seaons as a WR3 in our offense, but if the Chiefs continue to fail to find a really good WR2, he could ascend to a shrug-WR2, someone to play the position non-pathetically until we find the next Sammy Watkins. I think his ceiling is Chris Conley, which is nothing to write home about, but that's a really great get in a draft this garbage. B+

OG Tre Smith, Tennessee -- Home run. No question. This is why you don't burn $80m on a guard, or draft one in the 2nd round. Dorsey made his living finding really good guards late in the draft, and Veach has finally done it himself. Smith will not crack the lineup this year, but he's going to be our starting RG in 2022 -- bank on it. I have no idea how Veach landed this, when it was late in the 6th round and teams were just taking long snappers because there was no talent left on the board. A+
[Reply]
staylor26 11:18 PM 05-03-2021
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Even though I think Nick Bolton is a high floor/low ceiling player, I don’t mind him. He will take over for Hitchens and save money which has value. I don’t think he’s gonna suck by any means.

Meanwhile watching this team draft these awesome athletes in college who underwhelmed and didn’t do jack shit in a Chiefs uniform has been as true as death and taxes.

Eddie Freeman
Turk McBride
Tank Tyler
Junior Siavii
Tyson ****ing Jackson
Alex Magee
Dontari Poe-he lived up to his draft status for 1 year
Tanoh Kpassagnon
Khaulen Saunders


All these guys had a singular trait or combo of elite athleticism, elite strength, elite size and they all sucked. I didn’t list Speaks fat ass but he was touted ass this strong and tough. We saw how that worked out.

Meanwhile Tamba, DT, Houston and even Jones all dominated in college. They had good production and ****ing owned some mother****ers. Like they straight up raped college lineman. Even Dee ****ing Ford flashed a lot and had good production in college and had value here for a time until he royally ****ed up.
Yes I’d even put Allen Bailey on that list. He was very productive in college.

Only DL that I can remember that was awesome in college and let me down was Glenn Dorsey.

Generally I’m just tired of seeing the underwhelming college DL get drafted not for what they are but what they could be. It just doesn’t seem to work out at that position for us.

That’s why I wanted the ND kid
There’s so much wrong in this post, I don’t even know where to begin.

1. None of the guys on that entire list are in the same stratosphere as Kaindoh in terms of athleticism and pedigree. Can we stop comparing him to the likes of Tanoh? It’s fucking lazy and 100% dumb.

2. Most of those guys also weren’t even drafted by the current regime and weren’t high upside big swings by any means. This attempt to use them as some sort of example is a huge reach and comes off desperate.

3. Dontari Poe was good for more than one year.

4. Khalen Saunders flashed as a rookie then got lost in the shuffle in a deep group after getting injured. It’s a little premature to say he sucks.

5. All of the successes you mentioned were early picks. You want that kind of talent/upside in round 4 at a position like edge rusher? That’s Kaindoh.

6. Chris Jones was not a very productive player in college. That’s revisionist history.

7. Although I was also a fan, there’s probably a reason Ogundeji went almost 40 picks after Kaindoh. As his nfl.com profile says, “a backup role could be his absolute ceiling”.
[Reply]
wachashi 07:25 AM 05-04-2021
There is zero chance the Chiefs front office drafted Bolton where they did if they think he's only a "two-down player." If Hitchens can be this team's dime linebacker, (see AFC Championship game against Buffalo), then Bolton certainly can fill that role. If you project Bolton to play MIKE in 2022 and call the defense, the C- grade in the OP does not compute. It's one of the most important positions on the defense, especially in a scheme that wants to shift alignments pre-snap (also, see AFC Championship against Buffalo).
[Reply]
RunKC 10:04 AM 05-04-2021
Well looks like the Arrowhead Pride guys you all hate are going to work for BJ Kissel at Let it fly media so there will be a new group of Arrowhead Pride analysts for you to hate soon enough :-)
[Reply]
Hoover 10:14 AM 05-04-2021
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
I have a different itemization as you as to why we lost the Super Bowl.

Pretty high up the list is that we couldn't get pressure on Brady.

So to answer your question: they're not that much worse. Are they that much better?
I think we lost because we couldn't score...

The Chiefs put so much pressure on other teams to score points, its the only game I've seen with Mahomes at QB that our opponent didn't deal with the pressure to keep scoring points.
[Reply]
Hoover 10:15 AM 05-04-2021
Originally Posted by Couch-Potato:
Some of your points have merit, so I'm curious how would you have chosen differently considering how the draft played out?

I may have proffered the following:


Bolton, better value over Basham and Marshall.

Humphrey, another potential 1st rounder in the late 2nd.

Ihmir Smih-Marsette instead of Kaindoh would have been my first adjustment.

Wallow instead of Gray, I like Gray a lot but Wallow has pass rush and completes our LB core

Ogundeji over Powell, is there a big difference between Ogundeji and Kaindoh?

Trey Smith was a steal here, potential future starter in the 6th.
The problem with Ihmir Smih-Marsette is that he's not a great locker room guy. Not sure he would have been a good fit here.
[Reply]
staylor26 10:16 AM 05-04-2021
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Well looks like the Arrowhead Pride guys you all hate are going to work for BJ Kissel at Let it fly media so there will be a new group of Arrowhead Pride analysts for you to hate soon enough :-)
I don’t hate all of them. I honestly like Craig Stout.
[Reply]
RunKC 10:29 AM 05-04-2021
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
You guys are absolutely sleeping on the DE position.
They passed on a WR and DE in Rd 2 bc of prospects like Powell and Kaindoh who would be there later. I wasn’t a big fan of Kaindoh, but I think they are going to bring him along slowly and sign a FA like Ingram.

Next year they absolutely need to make DE a big priority. And I think they will.
[Reply]
htismaqe 10:41 AM 05-04-2021
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
You guys are absolutely sleeping on the DE position.
The value wasn't there. After the mini run at the end of the 1st, there wasn't much to choose from.

They got 2 guys in the 2nd that will make immediate impacts. I don't know what more you want. You don't just draft any old DE because it's a need. You still have to consider player value.
[Reply]
htismaqe 10:43 AM 05-04-2021
Originally Posted by wachashi:
There is zero chance the Chiefs front office drafted Bolton where they did if they think he's only a "two-down player." If Hitchens can be this team's dime linebacker, (see AFC Championship game against Buffalo), then Bolton certainly can fill that role. If you project Bolton to play MIKE in 2022 and call the defense, the C- grade in the OP does not compute. It's one of the most important positions on the defense, especially in a scheme that wants to shift alignments pre-snap (also, see AFC Championship against Buffalo).
Exactly.

Bolton is going to replace Hitchens. He's a 3-down player and your future defensive signal caller.
[Reply]
htismaqe 10:46 AM 05-04-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
6. Chris Jones was not a very productive player in college. That’s revisionist history.
Breeland Speaks was more productive in college than Chris Jones. Let that sink in for a minute.
[Reply]
The Franchise 10:46 AM 05-04-2021
Originally Posted by staylor26:
I don’t hate all of them. I honestly like Craig Stout.
Stout is the best one and I can handle Swanson for the most part. Matt Lane would be fine if he didn’t come across as a “know it all” douche. Plus his voice is annoying as fuck.

For instance. He gave the draft a B+.....if you swap Kaindoh and Smith to the two 2nd round picks and take Bolton in the 4th and Humphrey in the 6th. With where they got picked at? It was a C.

Then goes on to say that value goes out the window once they’re taken because the draft pick has been used. Well which is it then?
[Reply]
RunKC 10:56 AM 05-04-2021
Originally Posted by htismaqe:
Breeland Speaks was more productive in college than Chris Jones. Let that sink in for a minute.
Chris Jones was primarily a DT while Speaks primarily played DE while moving around at DT.

A DT isn’t going to have DE sack numbers in majority of cases.

Plus like I also said, you turn on the tape and you see the talent. The guy was throwing LSU guys to the ground and looked like a grown ass man out there in the SEC. he was a monster.

Speaks did not look anywhere near as talented as Jones. He popped a few times. Jones flashed all over the place in his tape
[Reply]
htismaqe 11:02 AM 05-04-2021
Originally Posted by RunKC:
Chris Jones was primarily a DT while Speaks primarily played DE while moving around at DT.

A DT isn’t going to have DE sack numbers in majority of cases.

Plus like I also said, you turn on the tape and you see the talent. The guy was throwing LSU guys to the ground and looked like a grown ass man out there in the SEC. he was a monster.

Speaks did not look anywhere near as talented as Jones. He popped a few times. Jones flashed all over the place in his tape
That was exactly my point. :-)
[Reply]
IowaHawkeyeChief 11:20 AM 05-04-2021
Originally Posted by Direckshun:
And this is why I hate tiers.

The idea that a guy is in a lower tier clearly denotes him as a step down— but some of these guys aren’t huge steps down.

And if you gave me the choice of an A linebacker and a C passrusher, or an A passrusher and a C linebacker, I know which one is take.
I understand the logic, but you are missing part of the equation...Spags defense is hard to learn, who are you going to play at MLB next year to call the defense when we are forced to cut Hitchens?
[Reply]
IowaHawkeyeChief 11:27 AM 05-04-2021
Originally Posted by Couch-Potato:
Some of your points have merit, so I'm curious how would you have chosen differently considering how the draft played out?

I may have proffered the following:


Bolton, better value over Basham and Marshall.

Humphrey, another potential 1st rounder in the late 2nd.

Ihmir Smih-Marsette instead of Kaindoh would have been my first adjustment.

Wallow instead of Gray, I like Gray a lot but Wallow has pass rush and completes our LB core

Ogundeji over Powell, is there a big difference between Ogundeji and Kaindoh?

Trey Smith was a steal here, potential future starter in the 6th.
We need a 3rd down pass rusher more than a WR... The line, and perhaps Callaway and Powell, will make this receiving corp look much better. Kaindoh's upside dwarfs Ogundeji's...

I'm a Hawk fan and I wouldn't draft Smith-Marsette for his potential detrimental attitude.
[Reply]
Page 8 of 14
« First < 45678 9101112 > Last »
Up