Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
they can do anything now. Bring back Steve Rodgers, anyone who died etc. obviously the first is all the actors who played Spider-Man’s.
If Loki can be a gator and female, let your imagination run wild on other variants. You can have famous people guest appear as a variant. Take any avenger and make them any possible animal. Doesn’t have to be an earth animal or being. There are no limits anymore. They’d better be good variants because the expectations bar has been set.
But that also means that what came before is mostly meaningless or could be rendered meaningless. [Reply]
Originally Posted by Jamie:
The cliffhanger didn't bother me, there was enough smoke around a season 2 that I was expecting a season finale rather than a series finale. And in that context I think it was well done. It wasn't a bullshit bait and switch cliffhanger, all the plot threads and character arcs we had been following through the season were paid off. It's just that the pay off set up more questions.
Agreed. For me, going into this episode, I mainly wanted a resolution of the Loki/Sylvie love story (which we effectively got in Sylvie’s emotional betrayal) and I wanted to know who was actually behind the TVA (which was answered in the first 5 minutes of the episode). Given what we knew going into it about the future MCU films, the explosion of the multiverse was coming and it was just the question of how we got to that point. A damaged Sylvie doing it at the manipulation of Kang/Immortus was an interesting way to accomplish it. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Well, I have to say, I didn't really like the opinions of that writer, and especially the Michael Waldron quotes. He seems to be saying the exact opposite of how Time Travel worked in Endgame, so if he's going to rewrite those rules, I just hope that it doesn't cheapen Tony Stark or Natasha's sacrifice or ruin Cap's chance at happiness with Peggy.
That's also the first time that I've heard that What If...could actually be part of the MCU and not just a fun side project.
The Infinity Saga wasn't like Star Wars Episodes 7-9, in which the overwhelming majority of fans would love to see them wiped from canon. Endgame was beloved by most people, including me, which is why it's the largest grossing movie of all time.
And while the writer thought that all of the exposition by Jonathan Majors worked, I felt the opposite. It was a plot device that was necessary because at the time of filming, Season 2 was a pipedream, so the only way to make the series work in 6 episodes was to have all of that exposition so that the viewers would know what's happening. To me, that's really, really poor planning on Marvel's part and a bit of a shock because everything else to date has been so meticulously planned.
It's weird because the entire series seemed to be moving at a snail's pace, then all of the sudden, BOOM!, we find out what's really going on in less than 20 minutes yet we won't won't find out how it concludes for quite some time. The more I think about it, the less I trust these Marvel TV series to do anything other than bridge the gaps between the movies to keep the "consumer" interested.
This is actually beginning to bum me out so I'll stop now. Ugh.
Well that’s a rather cynical way to look at it but probably not entirely inaccurate. I’m not exactly expecting the height of television when I’m watching a MCU series, though, and partially because of exactly what you describe. If it is interesting and entertaining, though, that’s enough for me. I think Loki more than accomplished that as a show in itself while also paving the way for Stage 4 of the MCU. [Reply]
Originally Posted by KC_Connection:
I’m not exactly expecting the height of television when I’m watching a MCU series, though, and partially because of exactly what you describe. If it is interesting and entertaining, though, that’s enough for me. I think Loki more than accomplished that as a show in itself while also paving the way for Stage 4 of the MCU.
My expectations come from several factors including Kevin Feige, the directors hired, the producers, screenwriters, showrunners, cast, composers and maybe most importantly, the budget.
If these shows were given typical network budgets, like those of Agent Carter and Agents of Shield, my expectations would be on par with those programs. But when Marvel is shelling out $150 million or more (not including marketing) for around 5 hours of screen time, my expectations rise accordingly.
And sure, Loki "paved the way" for entry into Phase 4 and Kang, it did so in the most awkward and strange way possible for a production with a $125+ million budget: 20 minutes of exposition by the bad guy.
Originally Posted by BigRedChief:
that’s what they are doing. There is not a single MCU. There are just not one but many multi-verse’s.
Well, if they end up fucking over the original Avengers and the Infinity Saga the way Lucasfilm fucked over Luke Skywalker and Han Solo, stockholders should expect to see Disney's numbers plummet. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
My expectations come from several factors including Kevin Feige, the directors hired, the producers, screenwriters, showrunners, cast, composers and maybe most importantly, the budget.
If these shows were given typical network budgets, like those of Agent Carter and Agents of Shield, my expectations would be on par with those programs. But when Marvel is shelling out $150 million or more (not including marketing) for around 5 hours of screen time, my expectations rise accordingly.
And sure, Loki "paved the way" for entry into Phase 4 and Kang, it did so in the most awkward and strange way possible for a production with a $125+ million budget: 20 minutes of exposition by the bad guy.
I think I also enjoyed the exposition much more than you as well. There was some real tension throughout those scenes among those three and also serious questions about just how much of what he was selling was pure manipulation (and in fact, those questions still persist even now given it seems he both wanted and expected this outcome judging by what he sent Renslayer and when he sent it). The viewer is supposed to be judging him and doubting the veracity of what he is saying just as much as Loki/Sylvie were in those scenes and I enjoyed that ambiguity as well. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
Well, if they end up ****ing over the original Avengers and the Infinity Saga the way Lucasfilm ****ed over Luke Skywalker and Han Solo, stockholders should expect to see Disney's numbers plummet.
I’m sure they realized that mistake and won’t make it again. That’s be a really stupid thing to do. And what does it benefit them?
What was the Avengers to Endgame will remain intact. It will just be one of the multi-verse’s. If they do something different, it’s a different branch and not the MCU canon as people knew before last night. [Reply]
Loved the finale. I didn’t want to get my hopes up about Kang after Mephisto, so it was a pleasant surprise to get our first glimpse of Majors in the role (although he will obviously be a different varaint(s) going forward).
It was sad to see Loki get his heart broke, but I love where they’ve gone with the character, and I can’t wait to see his story continue. [Reply]
Originally Posted by DaneMcCloud:
But that also means that what came before is mostly meaningless or could be rendered meaningless.
Welcome to comic books, and what has probably been my biggest worry about the MCU and how they handle retcons. I imagine when this overall story line for the multiverse is complete, most of the current stars from the previous phases will be out. Either replaced by new characters taking up the mantle (i.e Kate Bishop as Hawkeye), dead, or just ignored for a few years while they focus on F4 and mutant stories and characters. Maybe in 2030 they'll start bringing back some of the original MCU characters through different retcon methods. [Reply]
Loki sure had a tough episode. Got his heart broken by Sylvie, got sent to a different TVA with (presumably) evil Kang and his pal Mobius doesn’t know who he is. [Reply]
