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Patteeu Memorial Political Forum>Are you going to take the vaccine?
GloryDayz 08:48 AM 12-01-2020
I know I'm going to try to be first in line, but what about the rest of you? I'm not sure if the death count is where the science community wants it to be, plus Birdbrain hasn't been sworn in, so I expect there will be delays, but that's beside the point.

You can be honest.
[Reply]
MahomesMagic 07:56 AM 09-14-2021
Originally Posted by Stro39:
Covid deaths (total) Australia: 1102

USA (total, reported): 680,282.

Covid deaths reported for the USA yesterday: 1730.

Yes, a lesson in madness.


I don't care. Rather be here.


We had lots of old people die and they called it Covid instead of old age, BFD.

We had lots of fat people die of Covid instead of a heart attack, BFD.
[Reply]
MahomesMagic 08:05 AM 09-14-2021
departing heads of FDA vaccines division say there is no compelling evidence for booster shots
now able to speak freely, they caution that the data is poor, the conclusions premature, the process politicized. we should listen.

el gato malo
19 hr ago
102

35


two weeks ago, marion grueber and philip krause (director and deputy director respectively of the office of vaccines research and review) resigned from the FDA in disgust over the politicization of their agency around vaccines and the relentless drive to push boosters without sufficient evidence.

i spoke to this and their unusually blunt comments as they left HERE.

these 2 were the backbone of the science team at FDA for vaccines.

today (9/13/21), they are back signing on with 16 other health experts in a piece published in “the lancet” HERE.

in it, they reiterate and amplify their concerns about boosters

lacking any solid foundation in science at this time,

questioning the concept altogether,

and laying out their concerns on the data, the process, and the politics.

this lays plain their reasons for leaving the FDA and, freed from the organizational censors and political pressures, lets them speak their minds freely for the first time.


in an ecosystem this cozy where “playing the game” and “adhering to the party line” gets you board seats, sinecures, grants, and honorariums for life they could have stayed silent and just reaped rewards. this is the time honored practice of nest feathering.


instead they have chosen to speak.

this is a brave and selfless act and it WILL cost them dearly as the vaccine companies and politicians alike are going to take a very dim view of what they are saying.

personally, i’d like to thank them and to suggest that we listen to them. what they are saying is important.

they suggest evidence based medicine and risk reward calculations. this is real medicine and real health being discussed, not shilling and marketing for political purpose.

“Careful and public scrutiny of the evolving data will be needed to assure that decisions about boosting are informed by reliable science more than by politics.”

they describe the full picture and want to do real science. this is a principled stand and what real doctors and researchers are supposed to sound like.

why, if i didn’t know better, i’d start to wonder if perhaps these people were actually internet felines.

let’s hear some more:

and watch as actual adults and actual experts speak freely.

warning: may contain concepts like “risk/reward” that many faux practitioners of medicine and drug company barkers may find objectionable.

“there could be risks if boosters are widely introduced too soon, or too frequently, especially with vaccines that can have immune-mediated side-effects (such as myocarditis, which is more common after the second dose of some mRNA vaccines,3 or ,3 Guillain-Barre syndrome, which has been associated with adenovirus-vectored COVID-19 vaccines4).

If unnecessary boosting causes significant adverse reactions, there could be implications for vaccine acceptance that go beyond COVID-19 vaccines. Thus, widespread boosting should be undertaken only if there is clear evidence that it is appropriate.”

that is what public health sounds like when it’s discussed by actual public heath experts. after 2020-1, it’s kind of jarring, isn’t it?

this is what the real experts were really thinking all along.

how odd they were never allowed to speak and had to literally quit their jobs to be able to do so.

and how grossly disappointing that our health agencies have become the sorts of places where the experts are silenced so the politicians can stay “on message.”

let’s hear some more.

like them, i agree that vaccines seem to show efficacy in mitigating severe disease (on the order of 50% when i assesses the UK data HERE) but it’s also worth pointing out that they show no efficacy to stop spread and may well be accentuating it and selecting for hotter, more dangerous future variants because that’s what leaky vaccines do. i think their data on vaccine efficacy looks a bit rigged (because the studies that established it were salted and dis-included most high risk patients and therefore could never really demonstrate real world effects in weaker and higher risk populations).

vaccines (just like boosters) look like a strong idea for some, and a poor idea for others.

as i so often repeat: “medicine is everywhere and always a cost benefit decision”

it is only because this issue has been so politicized in the hands of a reckless few monopolizing message and mandate that this idea has not been front and center all along.

it’s not at all that the FDA did not know this.

of course they did.

they were just not allowed to say it. but now the experts may speak their minds and they are doing so with great clarity:

and i really think we ought to listen.

these are the actual experts. not fauci, not brix, not walensky, not murthy, and certainly not the angry grandpa “losing his patience” we had to endure the other evening.

this is what sense sounds like and what real public health evaluation is supposed to look like.

we’ve been throwing all the things we knew how to do out the window for 18 months and going on an truly unprecedented epidemiological joy ride with the lives and livelihoods of billions. we’ve ignored 100 years of evidence based pandemic guidelines and drug development knowledge and process.
Censored stamp isolated on white. | CanStock

we did it by silencing those that actually knew anything and subjugating them to grifters, hucksters, political fief builders, politicians, and demagogues.

this is not the road to good science or to good policy.

it’s clear these agencies are no longer about public health and it’s reprehensible that we’re created a situation where the top people have to quit to be allowed to speak the truth about medical interventions being marketed to and increasingly forced upon the american people.

but we have, and they did.

and we really ought to listen.

enough damage has been done.

we should follow the experts, not the agency nameplates.

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/f...tm_source=copy
[Reply]
BucEyedPea 08:13 AM 09-14-2021
Here's an excellent Scholastic-style debate about the scapegoating of the unvaccinated for continuing Covid illness cases. It's a bogus claim.

Note this particular one. He has other medical science ones too.

Reply to Objection 3. A society that claims to be pluralistic cannot be threatened by a plurality of attitudes. The distrust of public institutions cannot be considered a threat if coming from the unvaccinated, but a virtue (or at least an acceptable social stance) if coming from other groups such as, for example, the Black Lives Matter movement.


https://alertandoriented.com/are-the...eat-to-others/

© Copyright Michel Accad, MD Cardiologist and Primary Care Physician. https://www.draccad.com
[Reply]
Eleazar 08:24 AM 09-14-2021
Originally Posted by Stro39:
Those are the ones! Thanks.

It comes with the territory that conspiracy theorists on here would pick fringe people to back up their views.

At least the other Oxford guy mentioned seems like an actual trained epidemiologist, unlike the one you just cited, however there is a peer-review system in science for a reason, which is basically a way to sort out the f***wits from the real thing, Oxford education or not.
Itís fantastically easy to find out who these people are. In most cases you can determine if they are a crank in just a minute of searching. It illustrates in living color that conspiracy theorists usually donít look into the material and the people they are allowing to form their beliefs, but rather just search for and amplify material that affirms what they want to believe.
[Reply]
RaidersOftheCellar 09:04 AM 09-14-2021
Originally Posted by Donger:
Again, the placebo group is irrelevant to safety. See, they didn't get the vaccine.

It's not difficult. The efficacy was determined from the results of the trial:

Primary efficacy analysis demonstrates BNT162b2 to be 95% effective against COVID-19 beginning 28 days after the first dose;170 confirmed cases of COVID-19 were evaluated, with 162 observed in the placebo group versus 8 in the vaccine group
Actually, it's not irrelevant. It helps to determine how long protection lasts. And it's very important in determining efficacy against variants. The guy from your own article called it "a loss from a scientific standpoint."

They crapped all over the scientific method and did it intentionally. Period. Why even have a control?

You can't determine efficacy or safety without a control. And the FDA can't approve a drug without determining safety and efficacy.

But why worry about established standards when the average person is as gullible and trusting as you?
[Reply]
Donger 09:17 AM 09-14-2021
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
Actually, it's not irrelevant. It helps to determine how long protection lasts. And it's very important in determining efficacy against variants. The guy from your own article called it "a loss from a scientific standpoint."

They crapped all over the scientific method and did it intentionally. Period. Why even have a control?

You can't determine efficacy or safety without a control. And the FDA can't approve a drug without determining safety and efficacy.

But why worry about established standards when the average person is as gullible and trusting as you?
There is no protection provided by placebo.

Again, there was a control group during the trial and the efficacy was determined by that and vaccinated group. As the article stated, he was actually surprised that ANY of the placebo group decided NOT to get vaccinated.
[Reply]
RaidersOftheCellar 09:29 AM 09-14-2021
Originally Posted by Donger:
There is no protection provided by placebo.

Again, there was a control group during the trial and the efficacy was determined by that and vaccinated group. As the article stated, he was actually surprised that ANY of the placebo group decided NOT to get vaccinated.
Again, the person quoted in your own article called it a loss from a scientific standpoint. This completely goes against the scientific method. Who cares if they were surprised that a few wouldn't take it? What the hell is that supposed to prove? The point is that they shouldn't have had the option.

Can you at least admit that you're so invested in this thing (because you're a leftist who already rolled up your sleeve multiple times) that you'll never concede anything that doesn't reflect positively?

This won't end well for you, believe me. But we've tried.
[Reply]
BucEyedPea 09:30 AM 09-14-2021
Originally Posted by MahomesMagic:
My view is that modern medicine excels at surgeries and high-risk operations.

For preventative health care and wellness, terrible track record.

Look at the American Diabetes Association.

They tell Type-2 diabetics to keep eating more sugar.
I am in that camp too. They recommend a lot of things that are bad for you in terms of prevention and maintaining optimum health. Like their food pyramid with excessive carbs as if one and only for every body type, when each of us use the macro nutrients differently.
[Reply]
Donger 09:36 AM 09-14-2021
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
Again, the person quoted in your own article called it a loss from a scientific standpoint. This completely goes against the scientific method. Who cares if they were surprised that a few wouldn't take it? What the hell is that supposed to prove? The point is that they shouldn't have had the option.

Can you at least admit that you're so invested in this thing (because you're a leftist who already rolled up your sleeve multiple times) that you'll never concede anything that doesn't reflect positively?

This won't end well for you, believe me. But we've tried.
So, you would have forced the placebo group to NOT get vaccinated? Again, the efficacy was established during the trial. There is NO SAFETY data to observe in the placebo group because guess what? They didn't get stuck with the vaccine during the trial...

JFC.

And I'm not a leftist at all.

Other than all that, spot on as usual.
[Reply]
BucEyedPea 09:37 AM 09-14-2021
Biden is hurtling us into a despotism.

Immunologist regrets voting for Biden after 'draconian' vaccine mandate



[Reply]
BleedingRed 09:41 AM 09-14-2021
lol that aussie guy is a cuck
[Reply]
BucEyedPea 09:41 AM 09-14-2021
Doctors being threatened...
American Medical Bureaucracy, Including AMA, Increase Threats Against Doctors Who Do Not Comply With Forced Vaccination Position

The professional threats have increased in direct proportion to the tone of threat from the White House. The threats are intended to maintain the fear narrative behind COVID-19, and push all medical healthcare providers to carry only one acceptable opinion.


https://theconservativetreehouse.com...tion-position/

[Reply]
MahomesMagic 10:05 AM 09-14-2021
Lockdowns kill people.


“In developing countries the Lockdowns have had absolutely devastating effects

100 million additional people thrown into poverty.” @DrJBhattacharya

Help us find out what’s really going on : https://t.co/Zb6fLTJgNd pic.twitter.com/1Dsd6Sq2vE

— Collateral Global (@collateralglbl) September 14, 2021

[Reply]
RaidersOftheCellar 10:29 AM 09-14-2021
Originally Posted by Donger:
So, you would have forced the placebo group to NOT get vaccinated? Again, the efficacy was established during the trial. There is NO SAFETY data to observe in the placebo group because guess what? They didn't get stuck with the vaccine during the trial...

JFC.

And I'm not a leftist at all.

Other than all that, spot on as usual.
Yes, of course. That's the POINT of having a placebo. That's what they were prepared for when they agreed to participate.

Btw, did you know that in Pfizer's clinical trials, the vaccinated actually had a higher death rate? Oh, but that's okay because fewer people allegedly died from Covid! Yay! It works! You're more likely to die but not from Covid!

Whether you lean left or right doesn't change the point. There's literally nothing that could cause you to question the one allowed narrative. Pathetic.
[Reply]
Donger 10:38 AM 09-14-2021
Originally Posted by RaidersOftheCellar:
Yes, of course. That's the POINT of having a placebo. That's what they were prepared for when they agreed to participate.

Btw, did you know that in Pfizer's clinical trials, the vaccinated actually had a higher death rate? Oh, but that's okay because fewer people allegedly died from Covid! Yay! It works! You're more likely to die but not from Covid!

Whether you lean left or right doesn't change the point. There's literally nothing that could cause you to question the one allowed narrative. Pathetic.
It was the point during the trial to determine efficacy of the vaccine. And that was accomplished. We have real world efficacy now. By the tens of millions.

No, I didn't know that anyone died during the Pfizer trial.

I question everything, actually. Kind of known for that.
[Reply]
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