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Saccopoo Memorial Draft Forum>Alpha WR's
MahomesMagic 11:58 AM 02-27-2024
Thought I would create a thread dedicated to the Alpha WR's as there has been a lot of attention already on getting a better Mecole or MVS or tiny 140 lb slot WR's.



Alphas can't be stopped, you can only pray to contain them.


Malik Nabers




Adonai Mitchell

Adonai Mitchell is no stranger to Georgia fans. 2nd & 18, 8:16 left in the fourth quarter, Stetson Bennett drops back and completes a 40-yard touchdown strike to Mitchell over the outstretched Alabama defender to garner Georgia the lead in the national title.
It's arguably the biggest catch in program history, and according to sources, Mitchell is only scratching the surface of his stardom. It's virtually every day at this point, Mitchell will have people within the building raving about some miraculous catch he's made, or how he caught 80% of the footballs during 11on11 scrimmages.





Watch as Adonai takes over the game and has to be held repeatedly to avoid further embarrassment.


[Reply]
kccrow 04:31 PM 03-10-2024
Originally Posted by JPH83:
The odd thing about Mitchell is I'm not sure I heard rumours of him running 4.3 territory before the combine. I thought he looked plenty fast enough, but it seems noone else did. So I kind of see crow's point. But a mid 4.3 is a mid 4.3. I know it's not in pads but...you can kinda either run that or not, and you really don't need to run it EVERY snap.

I think he's going to be a really good player, might be the first WR eval I get right.
He has as much potential as anyone to be really good. I also agree you don't need to run that speed every snap. I just don't recall a snap where I said "wow he's fast." It's not a bad thing. I legit had him pegged as a poor man's version of Tee Higgins with the ability to get to that level. He just didn't show to quite be at the same level as Tee Higgins in college. I still pretty much feel that way, and there is nothing wrong with being a #2 fringe 1k guy in the NFL because that's still really good.

Running that speed though gives you a glimmer of hope that he could be Amari Cooper. It's not that Cooper is light years better than Higgins, but Cooper functions as an 1100 yd #1 so you're facing the better CB a little more frequently and putting up a bit better stats.

Do I think he is the next Justin Jefferson or Ja'Marr Chase? No, I don't see that at all. Could he be that? It's going to take a lot more endurance than he has now, IMO.
[Reply]
Nightfyre 05:52 PM 03-10-2024
Originally Posted by kccrow:
I don't grade a player on one game. So if the argument is "Well he beat Alabama's great corners" then the argument is flawed. He had 3 catches in that Alabama game. If two of those receptions didn't go for TDs, would you still be singing his praises? Probably not.

But beyond that, I didn't conclude by watching one casual play that he doesn't play fast. If I agreed with route pacing as the entirety of the excuse, I wouldn't be questioning his play speed. Route variation is something you look for. Amari Cooper is a master class in route pacing. Speed looks like and issue on tape repeatedly, which includes having to push off to open at the end of a go route, or not being able to outrun coverage on a completion where he should as a 4.3 player.

I'm going to pull up his highlight reel for now. At 0;34, this is good route pacing. That's what you're looking for. Not looking at a lot of the running in quicksand moments.



I don't even dislike Mitchell. I actually kind of like Mitchell. I don't know that he'd be the guy Reid would prefer. This is a team that relies on a lot of speed and quickness and a ton of movement. I don't think he has the consistency there.
I mean, I feel like you are throwing out the fact that he drew like 2 huge pass interference calls as Arnold was literally grabbing him and tackling him because he couldn't cover him. Oh and then Texas literally killed the clock for the last half of the fourth quarter. Context matters - Worthy also had a great game though. But his impact was muted compared to Mitchell.
[Reply]
kccrow 06:24 PM 03-10-2024
Originally Posted by Nightfyre:
I mean, I feel like you are throwing out the fact that he drew like 2 huge pass interference calls as Arnold was literally grabbing him and tackling him because he couldn't cover him. Oh and then Texas literally killed the clock for the last half of the fourth quarter. Context matters - Worthy also had a great game though. But his impact was muted compared to Mitchell.
I wouldn't feel like 5/75/1 is muted against that team.

I also feel like you guys are significantly overstating Mitchell's performance this year while significantly discounting other's performances and you're all doing it based on traits. It's fine but be honest about it and stop discounting how good some other WRs were.

Acting like Mitchell was in the same stratosphere as Troy Franklin is silly. He just wasn't. He didn't do anything as good as Franklin. But, he does have better pro traits. Acting like Worthy wasn't the better WR at Texas is also silly because he was. Discounting Worthy and Franklin's pro projection despite spread offensive schemes in the NFL now is also silly to me. Not all small WRs get broke and not all big WRs with speed work out.

Mitchell might end up the better pro player if he reaches his potential, but he's not better now. He's also not the best fit for this team. I won't be disappointed even a little if Veach takes him though, so let's be crystal clear on that. I don't hate the player. I just think we're not being realistic with what's actually on tape for any of these guys and the specific things Andy requests of his WRs, especially our Z.
[Reply]
Nightfyre 07:35 PM 03-10-2024
I will be curious to see how the NFL evaluates Franklin. I don't think he's above Mitchell on most teams boards, but I could be wrong. I think the Texas QB limitations actually hindered Mitchell's production. It's way more productive in that setting to just get the ball in a high probability throw to Worthy and watch him torch the defense with his speed than to take consistent shots down field with those QBs.
[Reply]
kccrow 07:49 PM 03-10-2024
Originally Posted by Nightfyre:
I will be curious to see how the NFL evaluates Franklin. I don't think he's above Mitchell on most teams boards, but I could be wrong. I think the Texas QB limitations actually hindered Mitchell's production. It's way more productive in that setting to just get the ball in a high probability throw to Worthy and watch him torch the defense with his speed than to take consistent shots down field with those QBs.
Dude what? I'm not even joking. I can't believe you typed that.
[Reply]
Nightfyre 08:54 PM 03-10-2024
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Dude what? I'm not even joking. I can't believe you typed that.
You don't think Ewers and Murphy struggled with the deep ball? C'mon man.
[Reply]
kccrow 11:08 PM 03-10-2024
Originally Posted by Nightfyre:
You don't think Ewers and Murphy struggled with the deep ball? C'mon man.
Are you going to hinge your evaluation on Ewers' deep ball? That's what you're basing this off of? Sure he needs to get far more consistent but he's deadly accurate on the short and intermediate stuff, which tends to offset that "limitation" quite a bit. If your entire argument for why Mitchell didn't perform to his physical abilities lies solely in Ewers' deep ball, then you might not have as good of a prospect as maybe you thought you did.

Bo Nix has inconsistent deep ball placement and he tends to hang up his WRs with those throws too. Should we give a bit more of a pass to Franklin? Didn't think so.
[Reply]
Nightfyre 12:20 AM 03-11-2024
Originally Posted by kccrow:
Are you going to hinge your evaluation on Ewers' deep ball? That's what you're basing this off of? Sure he needs to get far more consistent but he's deadly accurate on the short and intermediate stuff, which tends to offset that "limitation" quite a bit. If your entire argument for why Mitchell didn't perform to his physical abilities lies solely in Ewers' deep ball, then you might not have as good of a prospect as maybe you thought you did.

Bo Nix has inconsistent deep ball placement and he tends to hang up his WRs with those throws too. Should we give a bit more of a pass to Franklin? Didn't think so.
What I think is that the Texas OC would rather dump the ball off to Worthy and abuse his speed against collegiate competition than push the ball deep, except to maintain the threat of it. But in the few opportunities you do have to go deep, they have a low success rate due to deep ball inaccuracy. Sorta like how Jaylen Waddle doesn't get as many looks because Tyreek is on the field.
[Reply]
JPH83 02:51 AM 03-11-2024
I'd be interested to see a Frankin v Worthy 100m race. Honestly think the gap would be narrowed a fair bit from their 40s.

In any case, I'm just not THAT enamoured with Worthy. I think he could be incredible but i probably prefer Franklin. The advantage Worthy has is you can use him on screens and his hands are a little better. But I think Franklin is a more consistent deep threat weapon.
[Reply]
Couch-Potato 11:05 AM 03-11-2024
Originally Posted by JPH83:
I'd be interested to see a Frankin v Worthy 100m race. Honestly think the gap would be narrowed a fair bit from their 40s.

In any case, I'm just not THAT enamoured with Worthy. I think he could be incredible but i probably prefer Franklin. The advantage Worthy has is you can use him on screens and his hands are a little better. But I think Franklin is a more consistent deep threat weapon.
XL posted on IG yesterday 20 yard splits from the NFL Combine, Franklin Jr and Legette both had better times than Worthy. I think that probably speaks to Worthy quick speed and them being long striders so not sure it's as big a plus as he thought when he posted, but it's something. Means that all three have similar deep speed I guess.
[Reply]
wannaGOback 07:54 PM 03-11-2024
Originally Posted by Couch-Potato:
XL posted on IG yesterday 20 yard splits from the NFL Combine, Franklin Jr and Legette both had better times than Worthy. I think that probably speaks to Worthy quick speed and them being long striders so not sure it's as big a plus as he thought when he posted, but it's something. Means that all three have similar deep speed I guess.
Ya….problem is….its fools gold. Deep speed means absolutely nothing against NFL corners. If your movement is at all telegraphed(ie running deep in a straight line speed) you’re not getting open because you’re 1. Jammed. Or 2. Given plenty of space to back off and match.

Technique matters. And right next to that and nothing else really is 10split. If you don’t have burst to create IMMEDIATE separation, the window of opportunity is not hitting for a completion with pocket time ect at even 10% of the rate of a normal 100% separator. Why do you think Moore struggles so much?

Worthy, Mitchell, Thomas jr are the ONLY considerations to me in first or even second round. I’d take Legette I guess if we didn’t take any before because we need it. Franklin won’t be available at a pick that makes sense. Late second. I’m way more happy taking Ladd. But it’s the same with him, not in the first round. If we don’t trade up to get any of those three, it’s a massive failure. Unless one is waiting at 32. Jmo

The best play is still trade sneed and mortgage future picks to grab 2 of them. Unless they have a CHEAP wr or ONE YEAR wr deal available. Remember there’s other people to sign coming up. This is a make or break FA/draft year for not only implication of 3peat but the short window of time afterwards which his Mahomes prime. He’s entering it now. 5-6 years. Max. Not saying he won’t be awesome after, but not prime. It just makes waaaaay too much sense to draft cheap pieces with massive upside on offense.
[Reply]
JPH83 01:17 AM 03-12-2024
Originally Posted by wannaGOback:
YaÖ.problem isÖ.its fools gold. Deep speed means absolutely nothing against NFL corners. If your movement is at all telegraphed(ie running deep in a straight line speed) youíre not getting open because youíre 1. Jammed. Or 2. Given plenty of space to back off and match.

Technique matters. And right next to that and nothing else really is 10split. If you donít have burst to create IMMEDIATE separation, the window of opportunity is not hitting for a completion with pocket time ect at even 10% of the rate of a normal 100% separator. Why do you think Moore struggles so much?

Worthy, Mitchell, Thomas jr are the ONLY considerations to me in first or even second round. Iíd take Legette I guess if we didnít take any before because we need it. Franklin wonít be available at a pick that makes sense. Late second. Iím way more happy taking Ladd. But itís the same with him, not in the first round. If we donít trade up to get any of those three, itís a massive failure. Unless one is waiting at 32. Jmo

The best play is still trade sneed and mortgage future picks to grab 2 of them. Unless they have a CHEAP wr or ONE YEAR wr deal available. Remember thereís other people to sign coming up. This is a make or break FA/draft year for not only implication of 3peat but the short window of time afterwards which his Mahomes prime. Heís entering it now. 5-6 years. Max. Not saying he wonít be awesome after, but not prime. It just makes waaaaay too much sense to draft cheap pieces with massive upside on offense.
Skyy Moore had an elite 10m split so it's also true that it doesn't guarantee immediate separation. Imo Mitchell's releases are better than Worthy's, especially against press, but it's fairly close. Both are agile and quick enough .
I said way back I'd be keen to double dip and especially so if we get a pick. BUT...there's plenty of holes we'll need to fill soon.
[Reply]
wannaGOback 01:54 AM 03-12-2024
Originally Posted by JPH83:
Skyy Moore had an elite 10m split so it's also true that it doesn't guarantee immediate separation. Imo Mitchell's releases are better than Worthy's, especially against press, but it's fairly close. Both are agile and quick enough .
I said way back I'd be keen to double dip and especially so if we get a pick. BUT...there's plenty of holes we'll need to fill soon.
Did not know that about Moore. Must mean he really struggles at the line with releases. Could be a strength issue? Not sure. I totally agree with you, though. Personally, I rank Mitchell very high, with a decent drop off then BtJ and Worthy right next to each other. Same concerns of strength could be voiced with Worthy. You could also argue he’s a system fit. I wouldn’t trade up to grab anyone but Mitchell. I doubt it happens. Anyways. Wouldn’t be pouting if we got any of them at 32 and grabbed another in the FA or 2nd/3rd.
[Reply]
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